In the ever-evolving landscape of corporate governance, ethical leadership has emerged as a crucial driver of business success. It’s no longer enough for companies to adhere strictly to regulatory frameworks; today’s leaders are tasked with making decisions that align with broader societal values, ensuring that their actions contribute positively to the communities they serve. In a recent podcast, Pablo Hepworth Lloyd OBE, Chair of Twin Group and an accomplished social entrepreneur, shared his insights on ethical leadership drawn from over 30 interviews with leading CEOs. His reflections offer valuable lessons for leaders seeking to navigate the complex intersection of ethics, responsibility, and business performance.

From Finance to Social Impact: Pablo’s Journey

Pablo’s career is a testament to the power of aligning personal values with professional ambition. With over 20 years of experience in the education sector and a background in corporate finance, he has witnessed firsthand the consequences of placing profits over principles. Early in his career, Pablo worked for Arthur Andersen, a global accounting firm that ultimately collapsed under the weight of unethical practices. Reflecting on this period, Pablo shared,

“There was only one KPI anyone cared about—billable hours. If you were at the top of that table, you were rewarded, but if you questioned the ethics behind it, you were encouraged to look elsewhere.”

It was this discomfort that pushed Pablo to seek a different path. He left the profit-driven corporate world and transitioned into social entrepreneurship, founding and co-founding several enterprises aimed at creating social impact. His most recent venture, Visionnaires, provides mentoring and support to early-stage entrepreneurs, particularly those without traditional qualifications or social capital. Through Visionnaires, Pablo and his team have helped over 2,000 entrepreneurs launch their businesses, proving that ethical leadership can fuel both social good and economic growth.

The Power of Ethical Decision-Making

One of the key insights Pablo shared from his conversations with CEOs is the idea that ethical leadership goes beyond mere regulatory compliance. While regulations provide a framework for responsible business conduct, truly impactful leaders strive to do more. “Ethical leadership sets the tone for responsible practices,” Pablo explained, “and regulatory compliance is just a guidepost for ethical decisions.”

Pablo’s reflections draw on his wide-ranging discussions with CEOs across various industries. He emphasised that ethical leadership is about making tough decisions that may not always yield immediate financial rewards but can lead to sustainable success in the long term.

“It’s easy to make decisions that prioritise short-term gains, but the best leaders are those who think beyond the quarterly results and consider the broader impact of their actions,”

he said.

This long-term view was shaped by Pablo’s experience at Nationwide Building Society in the 1990s, where the CEO made the bold decision to reject privatisation despite the potential financial gains. The decision was driven by a commitment to maintaining the building society’s core mission of providing financial peace of mind to its customers. “That moment was pivotal for me,” Pablo noted. “It made me realise that leadership is about more than just profits; it’s about staying true to your values, even when the financial incentives suggest otherwise.”

The Challenges of Ethical Leadership

Despite the clear benefits of ethical leadership, Pablo acknowledged that it is not without its challenges. One of the recurring themes in his conversations with CEOs was the difficulty of balancing ethical considerations with the demands of running a profitable business. Many leaders feel overwhelmed by the sheer scope of responsibilities they now face, particularly in the context of global supply chains, environmental sustainability, and social responsibility.

As Pablo pointed out, “It can be overwhelming, but I see it as a fabulous opportunity. When you acquire power and authority, there’s an expectation that you’ll use it wisely. The challenge is to leverage that power to make a bigger difference, even when it’s not the easiest or most profitable route.”

One of the most compelling stories Pablo shared was from his time working with a leader whose team had been affected by the 9/11 attacks. The trauma experienced by the team led to difficult conversations about how to support staff who no longer felt safe travelling to their Manhattan office. The leader could have prioritised the company’s bottom line, insisting that employees return to work. Instead, they made the compassionate decision to offer financial and emotional support to any team member who wanted to leave the company or work remotely. “It was a huge risk to the business,” Pablo explained, “but it was the right thing to do. And in the long term, it paid off—people wanted to work for an organisation that cared about them as individuals.”

Ethical Leadership in a Regulated World

Pablo also discussed the symbiotic relationship between ethical leadership and regulatory compliance. Regulations, while essential, are often seen as a baseline for ethical conduct. True leaders, Pablo argued, go beyond these requirements to foster a culture of integrity that permeates every aspect of their business. “Compliance should be the foundation, but not the ceiling,” he said. “Ethical leaders understand that regulations provide the framework, but it’s up to them to build something meaningful on top of it.”

One area where this dynamic is particularly evident is in the field of environmental sustainability. Pablo noted that many CEOs he spoke to are grappling with the complexities of meeting increasingly stringent environmental regulations while also striving to reduce their companies’ overall carbon footprints. “The regulations are necessary, but they don’t always go far enough,” he said.

“The leaders who stand out are the ones who go above and beyond, not because they have to, but because they believe it’s the right thing to do.”

Lessons from 30 Conversations with CEOs

Throughout his discussions with CEOs, Pablo identified several recurring themes that define ethical leadership. First, ethical leaders must be clear about their personal values and how these align with the organisation’s mission. “You have to know what you stand for,” Pablo said. “If your decisions don’t reflect your core values, you’ll find it hard to lead with integrity.”

Second, Pablo highlighted the importance of long-term thinking. Leaders who prioritise short-term financial gains often miss opportunities to build trust and loyalty with their employees, customers, and other stakeholders. “It’s not about maximising profits every quarter,” Pablo explained. “It’s about creating an organisation that people believe in, one that they want to support and work for.”

Finally, Pablo stressed the need for courage in ethical leadership. Making principled decisions can be risky, especially when they conflict with immediate business interests. However, the CEOs he spoke to were unanimous in their belief that ethical decisions ultimately lead to better outcomes in the long run. “There’s always a risk,” Pablo acknowledged, “but the rewards—both in terms of business performance and personal satisfaction—are worth it.”

Ethical Leadership: Performance, Principle, and Power

A crucial aspect of Pablo’s insights revolves around the principles of Performance, Principle, and Power Decision-Making, which he sees as fundamental to ethical leadership. These three elements form a balanced framework for leaders who seek to make impactful decisions that align with their values. As Pablo explained during the podcast, “Performance is essential—every leader must ensure their organisation delivers results. But focusing solely on performance risks losing sight of the bigger picture.” This is where Principle comes in—making decisions grounded in ethics, rather than just financial returns. Pablo believes that principled leaders are those who consistently align their actions with core values, even when it’s difficult or unpopular.

Power Decision-Making refers to the responsibility that comes with leadership. “When you hold power, there’s an expectation that you will use it wisely,” Pablo said, highlighting that ethical leaders must be conscious of the broader impact of their decisions. This framework encourages leaders to use their power not just for profit, but to foster a culture of responsibility and trust.

The Five Pillars of Ethical Leadership

Expanding on this framework, Pablo outlined the Five Pillars of Ethical Leadership, captured through the mnemonic ETHIC. These pillars guide leaders in navigating complex moral decisions:

1. Empathy: Knowing and listening to your stakeholders, understanding their needs and concerns.

2. Traction: Turning ideas into action, making sure ethical values translate into real-world results.

3. Higher Purpose: Defining what the organisation stands for beyond profit, and focusing on its long-term mission.

4. Ingenuity: Using creativity and smart thinking to align ethical goals with business sustainability.

5. Conscience: Tapping into personal values and ensuring they align with professional actions, making decisions that reflect the leader’s true beliefs.

Pablo explained that the final pillar, Conscience, is often the most challenging for leaders. It requires them to look beyond organisational metrics and ask themselves, “What do I truly care about? And how do I align my leadership with that?” According to Pablo, this is the key to authentic leadership—being deeply connected to one’s own moral compass and using it to guide decisions.

The Future of Ethical Leadership

Looking ahead, Pablo is optimistic about the future of ethical leadership. He believes that as more leaders embrace the principles of transparency, fairness, and social responsibility, businesses will become more resilient and better equipped to tackle the challenges of the modern world. “We’re moving in the right direction,” he said.

“The more leaders focus on ethical decision-making, the more we’ll see businesses thrive not just financially, but socially as well.”

Pablo’s own career stands as a powerful example of what can be achieved when leaders prioritise ethics over expediency. Through his work with Twin Group and Visionnaires, he continues to push for a more inclusive, socially responsible approach to leadership—one that empowers individuals and benefits society as a whole.

Conclusion

Pablo’s reflections on ethical leadership, drawn from his conversations with CEOs and his own extensive experience, provide a compelling blueprint for modern leaders. In a world where the pressures of regulatory compliance, financial performance, and social responsibility often collide, Pablo’s insights offer a way forward. Ethical leadership is not just about following the rules; it’s about setting a standard that others can aspire to, making decisions that reflect core values, and creating a lasting positive impact on society.

​In a world increasingly concerned with the environment, businesses are under immense pressure to not only implement sustainable practices but also to effectively communicate these efforts in a way that drives genuine behavioral change. This shift in focus—from merely promoting sustainability to actively influencing stakeholder actions—was the central theme of a thought-provoking conversation between Helen Dodd, Head of Sustainability at Instinctif Partners, and Tom Morgan, Senior Director at Truth Consulting.

In this discussion, Helen and Tom explored the powerful role that strategic communication, behavioural science, and human-centered storytelling can play in bridging the gap between sustainability intentions and meaningful action. Drawing from their extensive experience in sustainability and communications, they provided insights on how businesses can better engage with their stakeholders and foster lasting impact.

Moving Beyond Greenwashing: The Need for Authenticity in Sustainability Messaging

One of the major challenges businesses face today is the perception of “greenwashing,” where companies are accused of falsely presenting themselves as environmentally responsible without backing up their claims with meaningful action. Helen and Tom both highlighted that this issue is a critical barrier to building trust and fostering genuine engagement with sustainability efforts. As consumers become more aware and critical of corporate environmental practices, businesses must be transparent and authentic in their communications.

Helen noted that businesses need to ensure their sustainability messaging is grounded in reality and aligned with their overall strategy. “Good communication strategies need to have a deep focus on sustainability,” she explained, referencing her time at Unilever, where sustainability was fully integrated into the company’s core business strategy through the Unilever Compass. This experience taught her the importance of authenticity in sustainability messaging:

“Sustainability is not something you can decouple from commercial objectives or reputation. It’s integral to both.”

Tom echoed this sentiment, emphasising that while companies are increasingly expected to communicate their sustainability efforts, they must do so in a way that resonates with stakeholders on a deeper level. “The challenge,” Tom said, “is that people are often sceptical of corporate sustainability claims. Consumers want to see real action, not just words.” This scepticism, he explained, underscores the importance of creating communications that are backed by data, behavioural insights, and a clear commitment to sustainability.

The Green Gap: Understanding Behavioural Barriers

A key theme of the conversation was the concept of the “green gap,” a term Tom used to describe the disconnect between what people say they want to do in terms of sustainability and what they actually do. According to Tom, this gap often arises because sustainable choices are perceived as inconvenient or costly, even when consumers express a desire to support environmentally friendly practices.

“People might say they want to buy sustainable products, but when it comes down to it, they don’t always follow through. This is the green gap—the difference between intention and behaviour.”

To address this issue, businesses must not only promote sustainable products but also make it easier for consumers to choose them. Tom pointed out that behavioural science can play a critical role in closing this gap by helping companies understand the factors that influence consumer behaviour and design interventions that encourage more sustainable choices. He described how his team at Truth Consulting uses behavioural science techniques to analyse habits and develop strategies that help disrupt unsustainable routines. “It’s about finding that moment when you can intervene in a way that feels natural to the consumer but also leads to more sustainable behaviour,” he said.

Behavioural Science: Nudging People Towards Sustainable Actions

The role of behavioural science in driving sustainability was a focal point of the discussion. Both Helen and Tom agreed that to foster genuine behavioural change, businesses need to understand the psychological and emotional factors that drive human behaviour. This approach goes beyond traditional marketing, which often focuses on communicating the benefits of sustainable products without addressing the underlying habits and biases that influence decision-making.

“People are often irrational when it comes to changing behaviour,” Tom observed. “We tend to cling to old habits and resist change, even when we know that change is in our best interest. That’s why it’s so important to use behavioural science to help people see the value in adopting new, more sustainable behaviours.”

Helen expanded on this idea, explaining how storytelling can be used to make sustainability more relatable and emotionally resonant. “Storytelling appeals to the human brain,” she said. “It fosters understanding and drives new behaviours by helping people connect with the ‘why’ behind sustainability initiatives.” Helen believes that by shaping sustainability communications around human experiences and emotions, businesses can create messages that are not only more compelling but also more effective at driving behaviour change.

Both Helen and Tom stressed the importance of empathy in sustainability communications. “Empathy is key,” Helen explained.

“If we want people to change their behaviour, we need to understand their concerns, their fears, and their motivations. We need to show them that sustainability isn’t just good for the planet—it’s good for them too.”

Aligning Leadership and Stakeholders: The Role of Storytelling and Data

Another critical aspect of sustainability communications is ensuring alignment between leadership and stakeholders. Helen noted that sustainability is no longer a niche concern—it’s a business imperative that affects every department within an organisation. For sustainability initiatives to succeed, leaders need to be aligned and committed to the same goals. “Without alignment at the leadership level,” she said, “there’s a risk of disjointed communications and a lack of real progress. Leaders need to model the behaviours they want to see in their employees and customers.”

Tom emphasised that data-driven insights are essential for aligning leaders and stakeholders. “Good insight is the foundation of good communication,” he said. “By using data to understand the motivations and concerns of different stakeholder groups, businesses can craft messages that resonate and inspire action.”

This is where Helen’s experience at Instinctif Partners comes into play. She leads a team that helps clients navigate the complex sustainability landscape, ensuring that their communications are grounded in both strategic insights and a deep understanding of stakeholder expectations. By combining data with storytelling, Helen and her team help businesses create sustainability narratives that are not only credible but also emotionally engaging.

The Future of Sustainability Communications: Continuous Adaptation

As the conversation drew to a close, Helen and Tom reflected on the future of sustainability communications. They agreed that the landscape is constantly evolving, and businesses need to be prepared to adapt their strategies as new challenges and opportunities arise. Tom highlighted the importance of continuous stakeholder engagement, noting that businesses must remain flexible and responsive to changing consumer expectations.

Helen added that businesses should not be afraid to pivot their strategies when necessary. “The context is always changing,” she said.

“What worked two years ago might not be relevant today. It’s important to regularly reassess your sustainability strategy and make adjustments as needed.”

Both Helen and Tom emphasised that while the road to sustainability is long and complex, the rewards are well worth the effort. By using behavioural science, data, and storytelling to engage stakeholders and drive behaviour change, businesses can make a meaningful impact—not just on the environment, but also on their bottom line.

Conclusion

The discussion with Helen and Tom revealed that effective sustainability communications require more than just good intentions. It involves a deep understanding of human behaviour, a commitment to authenticity, and a willingness to adapt to changing circumstances. By integrating behavioural science and data-driven insights into their strategies, businesses can close the green gap and inspire real, lasting change.

As sustainability becomes an increasingly important part of the business landscape, companies that prioritise empathy, transparency, and authenticity in their communications will be best positioned to succeed. Through strategic storytelling and a focus on behavioural change, they can turn their sustainability goals into reality—creating a better future for both their business and the planet.

In today’s marketplace, sustainability is no longer a mere buzzword; it has become a crucial component of consumer decision-making. However, with increased consumer interest in eco-friendly products comes the challenge of authenticity. The term “greenwashing” has emerged to describe deceptive claims made by businesses about their environmental practices. In this context, companies that truly prioritise sustainability face the difficult task of standing out while maintaining consumer trust.

In a recent conversation, Silvia Sigrist, Head of Marketing at Seep, delved into the evolving landscape of sustainability in consumer goods. Silvia shared her insights into how brands can navigate the pitfalls of greenwashing, build consumer trust, and effectively market their sustainability efforts. Having spent years developing digital marketing strategies for large organisations, Silvia made the shift to purpose-driven companies like Seep, a brand committed to eliminating plastic waste. Her journey from agency work to heading marketing for a sustainable company provides a unique perspective on the challenges of marketing genuinely sustainable products.

Sustainability: From a Trend to a Core Value

One of the major themes Silvia discusses is how sustainability has shifted from being a trend to becoming a core value for many consumers. However, this shift has not been without its challenges. Silvia explains that while consumers increasingly demand sustainable options, there is still widespread confusion about what sustainability really means. “A lot of the time, people don’t know that the product they’re using might be harmful to the environment, or even that it’s made from plastic,” she notes. This confusion is exacerbated by the rise of greenwashing, where brands mislead consumers into thinking they are more eco-friendly than they really are.

Silvia describes how brands must work harder than ever to educate consumers about what sustainability truly means and why it matters. For her, it’s not just about slapping a green label on a product but about ensuring that the values behind that product are real and transparent.

“We have a big role in first making people aware that the traditional products they’re used to aren’t necessarily good for the environment,” Silvia explains, “but also showing that there are alternatives available.”

This need for education is especially important when introducing sustainable products that may look or perform differently from their conventional counterparts.

The Challenge of Greenwashing

A significant part of the conversation focused on the growing problem of greenwashing and how it undermines genuine efforts by businesses trying to make a positive impact. Greenwashing occurs when companies use misleading claims or vague language to exaggerate the environmental benefits of their products. Silvia argues that transparency is the key to avoiding this trap. “We use certifications like B Corp and FSC packaging to substantiate our claims,” she says, emphasising that brands must be able to back up their environmental claims with evidence. At Seep, they also produce impact reports and are open with customers about the sourcing of their materials, even when it raises questions about why certain products, like their sponges, are sourced from places like China.

Transparency, Silvia believes, is the foundation of trust.

“If you can’t find transparency in a brand, that’s a red flag,”

she asserts. To combat greenwashing, Silvia advocates for brands to be upfront about their limitations as well as their successes. For example, Seep is candid about the fact that some of their products are manufactured overseas due to the lack of suitable suppliers in the UK. However, they ensure that these suppliers meet high standards for ethical and sustainable production. “It’s important to bring customers along on the journey,” Silvia adds, acknowledging that sustainability is an ongoing process, not a fixed achievement.

Educating the Consumer

Silvia highlights the crucial role of education in creating a more sustainable consumer landscape. As she sees it, many consumers are simply unaware of the environmental impact of the products they use every day. This is where brands like Seep come in, working not only to create eco-friendly products but also to inform consumers about why these products are important. “There’s a lot of jargon around sustainability,” Silvia says, noting that terms like “biodegradable,” “compostable,” and “eco-friendly” can often confuse rather than clarify.

One of Seep’s strategies is to keep things simple. “When we ask our customers what made them choose Seep, they often say it’s because our products are plastic-free,” Silvia explains. The clarity and straightforwardness of the term ‘plastic-free’ resonates with consumers who want to make environmentally responsible choices but don’t necessarily understand all the technical terminology. Silvia suggests that the future of sustainability marketing lies in this simplicity: “Just be upfront and clear about what your product is and what it isn’t.”

This educational aspect is central to Silvia’s vision of how sustainable brands can stand out in a crowded market. For her, it’s not just about making claims but also about helping consumers understand the broader context of their purchasing decisions. “Our mission at Seep is to eliminate 1 billion plastic cleaning tools from landfills by 2030,” she explains. While this might sound ambitious, Silvia emphasises that this kind of long-term goal resonates with consumers who want to be part of a movement that makes a real difference.

Building a Loyal Customer Base

One of the most interesting insights Silvia shares is how sustainability can help build stronger, more loyal customer relationships. She points out that consumers who care about sustainability often see their purchasing choices as extensions of their values. “If someone believes in reducing waste and sees that reflected in the product they buy, they’re more likely to stick with that brand,” Silvia explains. She believes that this alignment between personal values and brand values is one of the reasons why sustainable brands often enjoy greater customer loyalty.

This loyalty, however, is not something that can be taken for granted. Silvia stresses that it must be earned through transparency and ongoing engagement. “At Seep, we’re always communicating with our customers through email, social media, and other channels, sharing not only our successes but also our challenges,” she says. This openness creates a sense of community around the brand, making customers feel like they are part of Seep’s mission to reduce plastic waste.

Balancing Sustainability and Profitability

Silvia is also candid about the challenges of balancing sustainability with profitability, particularly in a market where consumers are often driven by price. Sustainable products typically come at a premium due to higher production costs, which can be a deterrent for some shoppers. Silvia acknowledges this but believes that the key is to communicate the long-term value of sustainable products. “Our products are designed to last longer than traditional alternatives,” she explains, noting that while they may have a higher upfront cost, they ultimately save consumers money by lasting longer and reducing waste.

Still, Silvia recognises that convincing consumers to pay more for sustainability is not always easy.

“We want to get to a point where sustainable options are more accessible to everyone,”

she says, adding that this will require greater demand and economies of scale to bring prices down. Until then, Silvia believes that education and transparency are the best tools brands have for justifying the higher price points of sustainable products.

The Future of Sustainable Marketing

As sustainability becomes an increasingly important consideration for consumers, Silvia believes that brands must evolve to meet the demands of a more environmentally conscious market. She envisions a future where sustainability is not an add-on or a marketing gimmick, but a fundamental part of every business’s strategy. “Sustainability is a journey,” Silvia says, “and brands need to be prepared to constantly improve.”

For Silvia, the most important thing is that brands remain true to their values and avoid the temptation to overstate their environmental credentials. “If you believe in sustainability, you need to integrate it into your product portfolio in a real and meaningful way,” she advises. This means committing to long-term goals, being transparent about the steps being taken to achieve them, and, most importantly, engaging with consumers in a way that is honest and clear.

In a world where greenwashing threatens to undermine real progress, Silvia’s message is clear: authenticity, transparency, and education are the keys to building a sustainable brand that consumers can trust.

Conclusion

As Silvia’s insights reveal, the future of sustainable consumer goods lies in authenticity. While the temptation to greenwash is strong, brands that prioritise transparency and education will be better positioned to build lasting relationships with consumers. For businesses like Seep, this means constantly striving to improve their sustainability practices while remaining open and honest with their customers. Ultimately, Silvia’s perspective reminds us that sustainability is not a destination but a journey—one that requires ongoing effort, innovation, and a deep commitment to doing better for both people and the planet.

In a world facing unprecedented environmental and social challenges, the role of businesses in fostering a sustainable future has never been more critical. The need for corporate responsibility to evolve from a profit-driven model to one that prioritises the planet and people alongside profit is central to today’s global discourse. Lise Pretorius, Chief Sustainability Analysis Officer at Matter, brings a wealth of knowledge to this debate, with a background rooted in environmental economics, corporate sustainability, and sustainable finance. Drawing on her experiences growing up in South Africa, working across various sectors, and her time leading sustainability efforts in Southeast Asia, Lise provides invaluable insights into how businesses and investors can play pivotal roles in driving systemic change.

In this enlightening conversation, Lise explores the intersection of corporate responsibility, sustainability, and ethical investment, offering a pragmatic yet optimistic view of how businesses can shift from short-term profit-making to creating long-term value for society and the environment.

A Personal Journey: From South Africa to Global Leadership in Sustainability

Lise’s journey into the field of sustainability was shaped by her upbringing in South Africa, a country deeply affected by resource dependence, inequality, and environmental degradation. Reflecting on her early experiences, she describes how these challenges fuelled her desire to better understand and ultimately change the system. “I grew up in South Africa… a melting pot of a lot of the global issues that we see,” she recalls. “I had this drive to understand how the system works and how can we imagine a different future.”

Her academic path took her to Stellenbosch University and later the University of Cape Town, where she honed her understanding of economics and its relationship to environmental and social systems. But it was her master’s degree in Environmental Economics from the London School of Economics that truly deepened her commitment to addressing sustainability issues. “I was very idealistic when I was younger,” she admits, reflecting on her determination to use her understanding of economics to change the world. Over time, this idealism has evolved into a more grounded pragmatism, recognising that systemic change requires a nuanced understanding of economic and social dynamics.

Corporate Responsibility and the Role of Business in Sustainability

At the heart of Lise’s work is the belief that businesses must move beyond traditional profit-driven models to embrace a broader definition of value—one that includes environmental and social outcomes. This idea is central to her current role at Matter, where she helps investors and corporations align their strategies with long-term sustainability goals.

“Corporate responsibility needs to be redefined,”

Lise argues. “It’s not enough to make a profit and then tick the box with a few CSR initiatives. Businesses need to think about how they can create a net positive impact on the world.” She emphasises that this shift is not just about avoiding harm but actively contributing to environmental regeneration and social progress. “We can’t just keep consuming and growing endlessly… the system isn’t sustainable.”

One of the key concepts Lise explores is the idea of nature-based systems. Rather than treating nature as an external resource to be exploited, businesses need to integrate natural systems into their operations. This includes investing in practices that regenerate ecosystems, reduce waste, and build resilience against climate change. For example, companies can embrace circular economy models that minimise waste and ensure that resources are reused, rather than discarded.

“We have to start thinking about how our economic activities impact natural systems and how we can design them to be regenerative rather than destructive,”

Lise explains.

Sustainable Finance: Aligning Capital with Climate and Social Goals

Another critical aspect of Lise’s work is the role of sustainable finance. She believes that capital flows are one of the most powerful levers for systemic change. By directing investment towards businesses and projects that align with sustainability goals, investors can help drive the transition to a more sustainable economy.

“Behind every business model or technology is the flow of capital – If we’re going to change the system, we have to look at where that capital is going.”

However, Lise also acknowledges the complexity of this transition. While sustainable finance is gaining traction, there is still much work to be done in ensuring that investments truly align with sustainability outcomes. “It’s not enough to say that a fund is sustainable. We need to ensure that it’s actually creating the positive impacts it claims to,” she notes. The issue of greenwashing—where companies or funds make misleading claims about their environmental or social credentials—is a significant challenge. Lise advocates for greater transparency and accountability in the investment space, calling for clearer definitions and metrics to ensure that sustainable finance delivers on its promises.

In her role at Matter, Lise works with investors to assess the sustainability of their portfolios. This involves analysing the environmental and social impacts of the companies they invest in and helping them align their investments with broader sustainability goals, such as the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). “Investors are increasingly recognising that sustainable investments aren’t just about risk management—they’re also about opportunity,” she explains. “There’s a growing market for sustainable products and services, and companies that align with these trends are likely to thrive in the long term.”

The Elephant in the Room: Overconsumption

While businesses and investors play crucial roles in advancing sustainability, Lise is also keen to address the elephant in the room: overconsumption. “We can’t just switch to ethical consumption and continue growing consumption endlessly,” she argues. The current economic model, which prioritises continuous growth, is fundamentally unsustainable. Lise points out that while ethical consumption and sustainability initiatives are important, they must be accompanied by a broader systemic shift away from the relentless pursuit of growth at all costs.

“We’re using 1.7 Earths to sustain our current economy,”

Lise explains. “That’s not sustainable, especially when much of the world’s population still lives in poverty.” She believes that part of the solution lies in redefining how we measure progress. Rather than relying on GDP as the primary measure of success, Lise advocates for adopting new metrics that account for environmental and social outcomes. “We need to shift our focus from growth to well-being,” she says. “That means thinking about how our economic activities contribute to societal progress, not just financial profit.”

The Power of Nudges and Systemic Change

Lise also discusses the concept of “nudges”—small interventions that can encourage consumers to make more sustainable choices. While nudging consumers towards better habits is a valuable tool, Lise cautions that it is not a panacea. “There’s only so much you can achieve by nudging individuals,” she says. “We also need to address the structural issues in the system.” This includes rethinking business models, government policies, and investment strategies to ensure that sustainability is built into the fabric of the economy, rather than treated as an add-on.

Lise is a firm believer in the power of systemic change, but she is also pragmatic about the challenges ahead. “Sustainability is a wicked problem,” she acknowledges. “There are no easy solutions, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.” Her optimism is grounded in the belief that by working together—across sectors, industries, and borders—we can create a future where businesses, people, and the planet can all thrive.

Conclusion: Towards a New Corporate Mandate

Lise’s insights offer a powerful vision for the future of corporate responsibility. Her approach calls for a fundamental shift in how businesses operate, moving beyond short-term profit to a model that values people and the planet equally. By integrating nature-based systems, embracing sustainable finance, and addressing the root causes of overconsumption, businesses have the potential to be forces for good in the world.

“We need to be honest about the challenges we face,”

Lise says. “But we also need to recognise the incredible opportunities that come with embracing sustainability. The future is uncertain, but the path forward is clear—we have to start thinking differently about how we define success.”

Lise’s pragmatic yet hopeful approach serves as a reminder that while the road to sustainability is complex, it is also full of possibility. By rethinking corporate responsibility and aligning profit with people and the planet, businesses can play a crucial role in shaping a more sustainable and equitable future for all.

In today’s corporate world, the focus on Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) principles has become increasingly significant, shaping strategies in industries from finance to heavy industry. But as the ESG movement grows, so does the complexity of its communication and implementation. Steve John, a seasoned ESG and Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) leader with over 20 years of experience in industries such as oil, gas, nuclear, and mining, offers a unique perspective on how to strike the perfect balance between idealism and pragmatism in the ESG space.

Currently serving as ESG Manager at newcleo, an innovative nuclear energy company, Steve has worked in various sectors where ESG isn’t always an easy fit. His experience spans the globe, with projects in diverse locations including the Kurdistan region of Iraq and the Indian Himalayas. In a recent podcast episode, Steve shared his insights into the evolving role of ESG, highlighting the importance of clear communication, practical strategies, and maintaining a moral compass in corporate sustainability.

From Ecology to ESG

Steve’s journey into the world of ESG began in a somewhat unexpected way. After studying ecology at university, he admits, “I wasn’t really sure what to do with my life” . His thesis focused on oil pollution in the Shetland Isles, a project he describes as a “desk-based study” that laid the groundwork for his interest in corporate responsibility.

“What companies say versus what they do has always intrigued me,”

he explains, noting how this early fascination with accountability became a central theme throughout his career .

After university, Steve joined a small environmental consultancy, producing environmental reports for clients in the financial services and water industries. It was here that his path began to take shape, as his firm transitioned from an environmental consultancy to a CSR consultancy. Reflecting on this pivotal moment, he recalls how the decision to rebrand the company as a CSR consultancy took just “30 seconds” but marked a major shift in his career .

This move into the world of CSR led Steve to work closely with sustainability analysts and socially responsible investment teams, who examined sustainability through a financial lens. This experience was formative, as he realised the power of combining environmental and social principles with corporate and financial strategies. As Steve puts it, “There was something about it that sparked my fire” .

Pragmatism in ESG: Simplifying Communication

One of the key themes Steve emphasises throughout the podcast is the need for pragmatism in ESG, especially when it comes to communication. ESG, as a concept, can be complex, and many companies struggle to balance the technical jargon of environmental data with the need to inspire action.

“There’s a tendency to use complicated language,”

Steve notes. He argues that while idealism is important for driving innovation and passion, clarity and simplicity are equally essential to ensure everyone in an organisation understands and embraces ESG principles .

Steve stresses that pragmatic communication is crucial for making ESG accessible, particularly in industries like oil, gas, and nuclear, where the technical aspects can easily overwhelm non-experts. “We need passionate idealists to drive the vision, but we also need practical communicators to make ESG accessible and relatable to everyone—from board members to field workers,” he explains .

This focus on clear communication is something Steve takes seriously in his current role at newcleo. As a growing company in a complex sector, newcleo faces significant challenges in aligning its nuclear energy goals with sustainability principles. However, Steve is determined to ensure that the company’s ESG message remains clear and concise. “We’re still building our culture as we grow, and ESG is going to play a big part in that culture development,” he says .

From Compliance to Storytelling

Another aspect of ESG that Steve highlights is the tension between compliance and impact. Many companies see ESG primarily as a compliance exercise, focused on ticking boxes and meeting regulatory requirements. However, Steve believes that this approach misses the bigger picture. “There’s always a need for compliance,” he acknowledges, but adds that

“the real challenge is in moving beyond compliance and using storytelling to engage people” .

According to Steve, storytelling plays a critical role in ESG, particularly when it comes to inspiring change within organisations. He argues that data and reporting are essential, but they must be complemented by narratives that bring the numbers to life. By framing ESG goals in a way that resonates with people on a personal level, companies can drive deeper engagement and foster a sense of purpose among employees and stakeholders.

Steve’s own career is a testament to the power of storytelling. Whether he’s working on the ground in remote locations or presenting at the boardroom level, he has always prioritised communication that connects with people. “It’s about making better choices,” he says, “whether it’s about how you travel to work or what suppliers you choose to partner with” . For Steve, this focus on everyday decisions is key to making ESG an integral part of a company’s culture, rather than just another regulatory burden.

Plugging Into Simplicity

During the conversation, Charlie, the host and co-founder of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, brings up the issue of greenwashing and the difficulty many companies face in making genuine, transparent claims about their sustainability efforts. As ESG becomes more embedded in corporate strategy, the risk of vague or exaggerated environmental claims increases, which can lead to confusion among stakeholders and, ultimately, mistrust.

Steve agrees with this challenge, noting that, “There’s a tendency to use complicated language,” which makes it harder for companies to convey their environmental impact clearly . He emphasises the importance of simplicity in ESG communication, and how essential it is for organisations to define their terms and avoid greenwashing.

This is where The Anti-Greenwash Charter comes in. Developed as a response to the growing concerns around misleading environmental claims, the charter offers a framework to ensure that companies provide clear, transparent, and verifiable information about their sustainability practices. As Charlie explains,

“The Charter encourages companies to define key environmental terms and avoid misleading language, ensuring that their green claims are backed up with real evidence.”

Steve fully supports this approach, seeing it as an essential tool for ensuring ESG communication is both clear and credible. “It’s about making ESG language simple and relatable,” he says. “When companies define their terms and provide third-party verification for their claims, it becomes easier for stakeholders—whether employees, customers, or regulators—to understand exactly what they’re saying and trust that the claims are genuine” .

ESG in Heavy Industry: A Unique Perspective

One of the most unique aspects of Steve’s career is his extensive experience in industries that are often viewed as ESG laggards, such as oil, gas, and nuclear. However, Steve sees these sectors as crucial players in the sustainability movement.

“There’s a misconception that industries like oil and gas can’t contribute to ESG goals,”

he says, “but what I’ve learned is that some of the best innovations in decarbonisation come from these sectors. It’s all about working with what exists rather than fighting against it” .

Steve’s pragmatic approach has led him to work closely with engineers and technical teams, ensuring that ESG principles are not just theoretical but are embedded in the day-to-day operations of these industries. “I’ve had more success in heavy industry than in any other sector,” he reflects, noting that the practical nature of these industries lends itself well to the kind of hands-on, results-driven approach that ESG requires .

His current work at newcleo, which focuses on developing small modular reactors and recycling nuclear fuel, is a perfect example of how heavy industry can lead the way in sustainable innovation. “We’re a young company, but our mission is clear: to innovate the nuclear industry and play a key role in climate change mitigation,” Steve explains. For him, nuclear energy represents a critical piece of the puzzle when it comes to decarbonisation, and he is excited to be at the forefront of this transformation .

The Moral Imperative of ESG

Beyond the technical and strategic aspects of ESG, Steve also touches on the moral dimensions of his work. “At the end of the day, it’s about doing the right thing,” he says. While ESG is often framed in terms of risk management and compliance, Steve believes that there is a deeper ethical responsibility that underpins the entire movement .

This sense of moral purpose has been a guiding force throughout Steve’s career, from his early days in environmental consultancy to his current role at newcleo. Whether he’s working on community engagement projects in Kurdistan or helping to shape the ESG strategy of a nuclear start-up, Steve is driven by a desire to make a positive impact on the world. “I want to be able to look back at my career and point to tangible examples of where I’ve made a difference,” he says .

Conclusion

Steve John’s insights into the evolving world of ESG offer a refreshing perspective on how to balance idealism with pragmatism. His emphasis on clear communication, practical strategies, and the power of storytelling provides valuable lessons for anyone looking to navigate the complexities of ESG in today’s business world. As he continues to lead the ESG charge at newcleo, Steve’s unique blend of experience, passion, and pragmatism is helping to shape the future of responsible investment and sustainable business practices.

For Steve, the key to ESG success lies in making better choices—whether it’s simplifying the language of sustainability, leveraging innovations in heavy industry, or maintaining a moral compass in corporate decision-making. As he puts it,

“ESG is ultimately about doing the right thing, even when it’s difficult”.

And in a world where businesses are increasingly held accountable for their environmental and social impact, that simple philosophy may be more important than ever.