Will isn’t just another voice in the ESG crowd. He’s been on the inside, designing sustainability strategy, engaging boards, and wrestling with the brutal complexity of telecom supply chains. And he’s refreshingly honest about what does and doesn’t work.

“The target’s just the start. It’s the action behind it that matters.”

In conversation, Will makes a compelling case: true progress demands that we escape our own organisational silos and rethink where value actually comes from—often in places overlooked by traditional ESG frameworks.

💡 Forget the Net Zero Checklists—Think Industry-Wide Standards

During his time at TalkTalk, Will led efforts that cut emissions by 58% in just four years. But he’s quick to point out that individual corporate action isn’t enough.

“We had to look beyond the four walls of the company. That meant getting competitors, regulators, and suppliers around the table.”

That effort led to one of the most ambitious initiatives in UK telecoms: a cross-sector collaboration representing £50 billion in annual revenue. The goal? Create minimum joint standards to address Scope 3 emissions—a problem that no single firm can solve in isolation.

Key Outcomes:

• 85% of suppliers (by spend) now have science-based targets

• A roadmap for reducing upstream emissions shared across the industry

• Ongoing work with Ofcom to align regulatory frameworks with sustainability priorities

This isn’t ESG as branding. It’s ESG as systems change.

🧠 Why ESG Reporting Misses the Point (and What to Do Instead)

Will’s critique of standard ESG reporting is incisive. He doesn’t reject it outright—but he’s sceptical of the weight it carries in decision-making.

“Reporting on ESG metrics is often about satisfying frameworks. But that doesn’t necessarily lead to change.”

So what does?

• Board-level engagement that links sustainability to commercial risk

• Simplicity and clarity over 80-page reports

• A shift from defensive disclosures to forward-looking strategy

His approach also included mandatory ESG training for TalkTalk employees and Carbon Literacy Training—a first in the sector.

🌐 What’s Next: A Commercial Lens on Sustainability

After nearly 12 years at TalkTalk, Will is shifting his focus to consultancy, bringing a commercial mindset to ESG challenges in other industries. He sees massive untapped potential for mid-sized firms—too often overlooked in policy discussions.

“The companies that are going to move the dial are those that see sustainability not as a cost, but as a catalyst.”

And as he explains, today’s sustainability professionals aren’t simply under-resourced. They’re tasked with being polymaths—strategists, diplomats, auditors, and ethicists—all under growing scrutiny and with shrinking support.

“Sustainability is like a Swiss Army knife. It does a little bit of everything,” Jack says. “But unfortunately, it always seems to be the department that gets its legs chopped off first.”

🛠️ The Rise—and Frustration—of the Corporate Generalist

Jack’s journey began not in a boardroom, but in the wilds of the UK’s Peak District, where childhood experiences in nature formed the roots of his professional ethos. After studying zoology and later earning a master’s in environmental technology at Imperial College London, he entered the workforce at a time when sustainability wasn’t yet codified—it was a curiosity, a cost, or a PR side note.

Now, two decades on, Jack is deeply embedded in the inner workings of ESG governance. But the job has changed. Dramatically.

Sustainability teams are, he argues, often the first to face cuts. And even when intact, their scope is impossibly broad:

• Ensure compliance with a shifting regulatory landscape.

• Build internal cross-departmental governance systems.

• Communicate externally with credibility and legal precision.

• Shape long-term strategy while responding to daily crises.

All with skeleton staff, tight budgets, and intensifying political pressure.

“We’re expected to be crystal ball mind readers, functional experts, accountants, legal gurus—literally everything under the sun.”

⚖️ Green Hushing, Political Polarisation & the Ethics of Silence

One of the most revealing parts of Jack’s conversation centres on communication—or the growing reluctance to do so. Reflecting on a 2023 Axios article about the trend towards subtler ESG messaging, Jack doesn’t dispute the phenomenon, but he adds a more human angle.

Green hushing, he argues, can be soul-destroying. Not just because it silences companies, but because it silences the people within them trying to do the right thing.

“Not being able to say something can be heartbreaking. There aren’t many regular places for people in sustainability to get their stories across.”

This isn’t about silencing fluff—it’s about losing the stories and case studies that drive peer-to-peer innovation and cross-sector learning. And while Jack believes internal collaboration will endure, he warns that without external communication, public understanding will continue to fragment.

“We need to encourage better decision-making by consumers. We can only do that if we talk and engage and communicate.”

🧭 The Say-Do Gap & Brand Activism

Jack’s insights into brand alignment are refreshingly nuanced. While there’s clear fatigue with companies hopping on every social cause, Jack resists the idea that corporates are purely cynical or performative.

He identifies a more structural problem: companies are increasingly reactive—nudged by NGOs, employees, trade groups, even rivals—into engagement. That’s not inherently bad. But it raises big questions:

• Are we aligning with this issue because we believe in it, or because we fear being left behind?

• Do we have the systems, strategy, and budget in place to act on it?

• Will this be a sustained commitment or a one-month campaign?

“There needs to be a little more pragmatism and seriousness about what the company is going to be able to do before it says what it’s going to do.”

Jack isn’t calling for less ambition—he’s calling for more integrity.

🎯 The Magic Wand? Give Sustainability the Tools It Needs

Asked what he’d do with a magic wand, Jack doesn’t hesitate. He wouldn’t conjure up more pledges or frameworks. He’d give sustainability professionals what most already have to beg for: adequate resources.

“I’d wish my colleagues had the tools, the budgets, the buy-in. We can’t keep expecting strategic transformation from underfunded teams.”

It’s not just a plea for fairness—it’s a warning. Without structural investment, the very people tasked with delivering long-term value will burn out before they ever reach the summit.

“You don’t have to have sustainability in your title to be a sustainability professional.”

This episode delivers one of the most practical, nuanced, and insightful explorations to date of how the sustainability movement has evolved—and what organisations consistently get wrong when building their teams.

The Turning Point: When Ethics Met Enterprise

Ellen didn’t always plan to work in sustainability. As a student, she had her sights set on becoming a stockbroker—until a trip to post-Berlin Wall Poland changed everything. Witnessing educated families struggle with food rationing and clothing scarcity, she realised the power business could have in driving positive social impact.

“I wanted to help. I said, I want to do good with business.”

That insight led to her first informal case of “cause marketing”: importing hand-knit sweaters from Polish women and reselling them at a markup, with profits returned to the community. It wasn’t just smart—it was ethical entrepreneurship in action.

From Cameroon to Corporate Boardrooms

Ellen joined the Peace Corps in Cameroon, working with coffee co-operatives and woodcarvers, deepening her understanding of trade, fairness, and international development. This foundation became the launchpad for a sustainability consultancy career, with roles at Levi Strauss, HP, the World Bank, and more.

But a piece of advice changed her trajectory again: “You need to niche.” Recognising her talent for connecting people, Ellen launched Weinreb Group to specialise in one thing: placing changemakers in sustainability roles.

“We put changemakers to work.”

What’s Really Happening in the CSO Job Market?

Her firm’s flagship research—the Chief Sustainability Officer Report—tracks the evolution of CSOs in U.S. publicly traded companies. The 2025 edition found:

• 📊 CSO numbers have grown from 30 in 2011 to 220+ in 2025.

• ⚖️ Only 50% had sustainability in their prior job title—many came from legal, supply chain, or corporate affairs.

• 🧠 Top attribute for success? Being a “corporate chameleon.”

“You need at least one person to own it. Someone who can interpret the external world and influence internally.”

Common Mistakes Companies Make

Ellen was candid about where companies go wrong:

• Underestimating the role: “They think they can just hire a junior person. Then they realise, this is way bigger than anticipated.”

• Prioritising compliance over impact: “It’s easy to lose sight of strategy in the fog of regulation.”

• Not aligning with business strategy: “Sustainability has to make business sense. It’s not just philanthropy anymore.”

The Future of Sustainability Leadership

What skills will tomorrow’s CSOs need?

• Financial fluency: understanding the language of CFOs and audit teams

• Strategic systems thinking: balancing macro trends with granular data

• Internal diplomacy: navigating complex stakeholder ecosystems

• Adaptability: “Being a chameleon” across departments and agendas

“The CSO needs to speak the language of whoever they’re talking to—legal, finance, supply chain. It’s about embedding, not siloing.”

✨ Magic Wand Moment

If Ellen could change one thing in the commercial world?

“I’d give consumers full information. So they could make truly informed choices.”

It’s a deceptively simple goal—but one that underpins the entire ESG movement.

🏎 Formula One’s Race Towards Sustainability

Jamie’s career took a defining turn when he joined Honda Racing F1, a sport driven by milliseconds and cutting-edge innovation. While many industries hesitate to embrace sustainability due to concerns over cost and complexity, F1’s relentless pursuit of efficiency provided a unique testing ground.

🚀 Key Sustainability Challenges in F1:

• Carbon Fibre Waste: Unlike metals, carbon fibre is notoriously difficult to recycle, leading to excessive waste.
• Energy-Intensive Logistics: The sport’s global calendar requires frequent international transport, increasing emissions.
• High-speed R&D vs. Sustainability Priorities: Development cycles in F1 are lightning-fast, often leaving little room for long-term environmental considerations.

Rather than seeing these as roadblocks, Jamie recognised that the culture of optimisation in F1 could be leveraged to embed sustainability.

“In Formula One, innovation is non-negotiable. If you apply that same mindset to sustainability, you stop seeing it as a limitation and start seeing it as a way to push performance forward.”

Some of the key innovations he helped implement included:

✅ Carbon Fibre Recycling Trials – exploring methods to repurpose discarded materials.
✅ Waterless Vehicle Cleaning – reducing water use across logistics operations.
✅ Sustainable Branding – shifting team sponsorships towards companies with strong environmental credentials.

🔄 Bringing Circularity to Automotive Manufacturing

After F1, Jamie transitioned to Jaguar Land Rover, where the challenge was not speed, but scale. Unlike the bespoke world of motorsport, automotive production is about mass efficiency—meaning sustainability solutions need to work across millions of vehicles.

🌿 Key Circular Economy Strategies at JLR:

• Closed-loop aluminium recycling – melting down old vehicles to create new ones, reducing raw material demand.
• Lightweighting initiatives – using composite materials to lower vehicle weight and improve fuel efficiency.
• Reducing embodied carbon in interiors – incorporating sustainable textiles and recycled plastics.

“Sustainability at scale requires a different kind of engineering—one that considers the full lifecycle of a product, not just its performance on day one.”

This systems-thinking approach laid the groundwork for his next challenge: applying sustainability in an industry where durability and design reign supreme—luxury flooring.

🏢 Re-engineering Flooring for a Sustainable Future

Today, Jamie leads sustainability at Karndean Designflooring, a global leader in high-end vinyl flooring. Flooring presents a unique sustainability challenge: it needs to be durable, aesthetically flexible, and cost-effective—often conflicting with recyclability and material transparency.

🏗 Sustainability Challenges in Flooring:

• Plastics & Chemical Use – PVC-based products must meet high safety and durability standards while minimising environmental impact.
• End-of-life Waste – Most flooring materials are difficult to recycle due to adhesives and composite layers.
• Carbon Footprint – Reducing emissions across sourcing, manufacturing, and logistics.

To tackle these issues, Jamie is focused on:

✅ Developing closed-loop recycling schemes – ensuring old flooring products don’t end up in landfill.
✅ Innovating with bio-based materials – exploring alternatives to fossil fuel-derived components.
✅ Enhancing product transparency – giving consumers a clear understanding of material origins and impact.

Unlike industries where sustainability is externally mandated, Jamie is working to shift mindsets internally—making sustainability a proactive business advantage rather than a reactive compliance measure.

“If sustainability isn’t built into product design from the start, you’re always playing catch-up. We’re changing that.”

🎯 The Formula for Fast-Track Sustainability

Across F1, automotive, and flooring, Jamie’s approach remains the same:

🏁 Embed sustainability in R&D – don’t treat it as a bolt-on after products are developed.
🏁 Focus on efficiency gains – sustainability should drive business value, not just reduce impact.
🏁 Push for circularity – products should be designed with their end-of-life in mind.

His journey proves that the most competitive industries—those that move the fastest—can also lead the way in sustainability.

“Sustainability isn’t a barrier to performance. In fact, when done right, it drives better results across the board.”

💡 From Tech Corporates to Purpose-Driven Innovation

Julien’s story is one of progressive realisation — sustainability was not always the primary focus, but it became the driving force behind Advizzo’s creation.

👉 Early career in corporate tech giants like Oracle — focused on product, sales, and process-heavy work.
👉 A pivotal shift came when Julien joined Opower, a pioneering US energy efficiency startup, which opened his eyes to purpose-driven technology.
👉 Inspired, Julien co-founded Advizzo in 2015 — focusing on helping utilities and their customers reduce water and energy consumption using behavioural science and smart data.

“We didn’t just build a platform — we built a whole new segment in water efficiency, where few were focusing back then.”

⚡️ The Reality of Building a Sustainable SaaS Startup

Julien was refreshingly candid about the realities of founding a sustainability-focused startup. Far from the glamorous tech unicorn narrative, his story highlights the grit required to survive.

Key Challenges Faced:

💰 Raising money with no product — “We went unpaid for eight months, with no salary, building out of nothing.”
😓 Stress and health impacts — “There was a point where the pressure to meet payroll landed me in the hospital. No entrepreneur talks about that enough.”
⚖️ Balancing product innovation with regulatory navigation — Sustainability isn’t just about having a great product; you need the policy landscape to align too.

“Startups in sustainability often forget — the best product in the world won’t succeed if the regulatory environment isn’t pushing the market in the right direction.”

🛠️ Building in a Market That Doesn’t Exist

A recurring theme was the sheer difficulty of creating a market from scratch. Water efficiency wasn’t high on the agenda when Advizzo started, so Julien and his co-founder had to educate, advocate, and sell all at once.

🚧 Barriers they faced:

👉 Lack of awareness in the UK about the importance of behavioural water saving.
👉 Minimal regulatory support compared to energy efficiency, which already had established mandates in the US.
👉 Resistance from utilities that saw behavioural programmes as a ‘nice to have’ rather than essential.

“We were asking utilities to invest in saving water — a resource they are used to billing for. That’s a difficult cultural shift.”

⚖️ Regulation: The Underrated Growth Driver

Julien spoke at length about the role of regulation in sustainability success. Advizzo’s growth accelerated when:

👉They hired a regulatory expert to help shape water-saving policy in the UK.
👉They aligned Advizzo’s value proposition directly to emerging regulatory requirements.
👉They understood that policy shifts create whole new revenue streams for startups if you position yourself correctly.

“Regulation creates the conditions for growth — without it, you’re trying to sell innovation to customers who aren’t required to change.”

🚀 Pro Tip: If you’re building a sustainability business, embed regulatory engagement into your business plan from day one.

🔍 Learn from Others: Embracing ‘Graveyard Diligence’

A standout takeaway was Julien’s use of ‘graveyard diligence’ — a term coined in a fashion sustainability article, which he wholeheartedly embraced.

💀 What it means: Actively studying why similar startups failed and using that intelligence to shape your own approach.

“We saw US startups drowning in endless pilots — never reaching scale. So we deliberately moved to full-scale projects, even if they started small.”

✅ Key Learnings from Competitor Failures:

• Avoid over-reliance on short-term pilots.
• Focus on landing longer-term contracts.
• Build tech that adapts to evolving regulations.
• Don’t chase grants that create false markets.

🔄 The Emotional & Practical Realities of Exit

Julien was open about the emotional complexity of selling Advizzo after nearly a decade of building the company.

⚙️ Why Sell?

• A new round of funding (Series B) would require another five years of high-intensity scaling.
• Joining a larger company (Calisen Group) provided access to sales teams, infrastructure, and complementary products, enabling faster market access.
• Calisen’s existing focus on smart metering and decarbonisation aligned well with Advizzo’s mission.

🧠 The Transition Experience

“It’s a weird adjustment going from being in control to being part of a larger machine. The stress doesn’t disappear, it just changes shape. The hardest part was letting go — trusting others to understand what made Advizzo successful.”

🚀 Despite the challenges, Julien sees partnership with Calisen as a smart, values-aligned route to scale.

✨ Final Reflection: What Needs to Change in Sustainable Business?

When asked the magic wand question, Julien’s answer wasn’t about faster exits or better funding — it was about impact.

“The biggest frustration was knowing we could do so much more — but being limited by short-term corporate thinking and lack of regulatory urgency.”

🔥 Julien’s Wish for the Future:

👉Faster, more ambitious regulation that drives sustainability initiatives forward.
👉Corporate leaders who genuinely understand that long-term value comes from embedding sustainability, not treating it as optional.

“We didn’t just want to make money — we wanted to save water, improve resilience, and leave a positive legacy. That’s what sustainability startups should be aiming for.”

🎯 Key Takeaways for Sustainability Founders

✅ Embrace regulatory strategy — don’t just build product, shape the market.
✅ Study why similar startups failed — don’t repeat the same mistakes.
✅ Build for long-term partnerships, not quick wins.
✅ Accept stress as part of the process — but find ways to manage it.
✅ Stay true to your impact mission — but be commercially smart about how you achieve it.

Julien’s journey through the trenches of sustainable entrepreneurship offers a goldmine of practical insight for anyone looking to launch or scale a purpose-driven business. As Julien put it:

“You don’t build a sustainability startup to make millions. You do it to make a difference — but that doesn’t mean you can ignore the business fundamentals.”

Governance: The ESG Factor That Holds Everything Together

Many companies treat governance as an afterthought, focusing on sustainability commitments without embedding accountability structures that make them stick. But Rob argues that strong governance is what determines whether ESG is meaningful or just words on a page.

“If you’ve got the right tone from the top, then all sorts of good things can be done in the environmental and social space. If you don’t have that, you’re going to struggle.”​

Too often, governance reacts to pressure instead of driving long-term strategy. Without leadership commitment, sustainability goals become vulnerable to financial or political shifts.

ESG in Emerging Markets: A Higher Standard is Expected

A common excuse for weak ESG performance in emerging markets is that local regulations don’t demand higher standards. But according to Rob, this mindset is no longer acceptable:

“The expectation is that companies will operate to the highest standards they know of—wherever they’re working.”​

This means businesses must take the lead in raising local standards, rather than just meeting minimum legal requirements.

One example is worker welfare. In many markets, wage disparities exist—but that doesn’t justify poor working conditions.

“Just because you’re not paying workers the same salary doesn’t mean they shouldn’t expect dignity, quality accommodation, and a safe environment.”​

Companies that fail to uphold these standards face increasing scrutiny from investors, employees, and civil society—regardless of where they operate.

Decision-Making in Governance: The Three-Question Test

One of the most practical governance frameworks Rob encountered was a three-question test used by senior leadership at Shell:

“For every major decision, we were encouraged to ask: Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise?”​

✔ Legal – The basic compliance check.
✔ Ethical – Requires engaging stakeholders to determine what’s right.
✔ Wise – Considers long-term consequences—how the decision will be judged in years to come.

“Something that is acceptable today might be unacceptable a decade from now.”​

This forward-looking perspective is critical, particularly for companies operating in industries facing high scrutiny, rapid policy changes, or shifting public sentiment.

Why Weak Governance Leads to ESG Failures

Final Thoughts: Governance as a Competitive Advantage