When Certification Becomes a Substitute for Stewardship

Episode 149 | 2.3.2026

When Certification Becomes a Substitute for Stewardship

Pooran Desai, founder of OnePlanet.com, argues that sustainability standards often entrench siloed thinking and mistake compliance for systemic change.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

The promise of proof

Sustainability standards are designed to reassure. They translate environmental and social ambition into measurable criteria. They produce certificates, benchmarks and case studies.

An article by ISEAL, How are sustainability standards driving real world change?, assembles evidence in their favour. It cites modest income increases for small producers within certification schemes. It points to export gains in lower-income countries. It highlights improved carbon management among certified cocoa farmers in Ghana and biodiversity gains under forest certification systems.

The conclusion is measured. Standards are not sufficient alone, but they should be strengthened.

Pooran sees the problem differently. For him, the core issue is not weak standards. It is the belief that standards can deliver transformation.

 

A systems founder shaped by science

Pooran is the founder of OnePlanet.com, a digital platform built to help governments and organisations map the interconnected effects of their decisions.

His career spans neuroscience, sustainable forestry, real estate development and the creation of the One Planet Living framework, which informed early proposals for the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Pooran describes sustainability as grounded in a basic recognition: “everything is interconnected.” Silos, he argues, exist in organisations and in minds. “Those silos do not exist out there.”

Most institutions manage sustainability through conventional databases structured in rows and columns. OnePlanet.com instead uses graph database architecture, organising information by relationships rather than categories. Policies are broken into “outcomes, actions, indicators,” then linked across departments and sectors. Overlaps, conflicts and shared goals become visible.

The premise is operational rather than rhetorical. If sustainability is about interdependence, the underlying data structure must reflect it.

 

The certification encounter

Pooran’s scepticism toward standards is rooted in experience.

In the 1990s, he co-founded sustainable forestry enterprises in the UK. The model reintroduced traditional coppice woodland management, regenerating habitats while replacing unsustainable imports. The business developed a distributed production network, supplying local retailers.

When major customers required Forest Stewardship Council certification, the company complied. The process, he says, was “an absolute nightmare.”

Certification increased bureaucracy and cost. More critically, it displaced tacit knowledge. Graduate auditors assessed third- and fourth-generation woodland workers who “lived it, they breathed it, they smelt it.”

Of the auditors, Pooran says: “You’ve got nowhere near their knowledge and understanding.”

Authority shifted from practitioner to certifier. Box-ticking became proof of sustainability.

For Pooran, this inversion exposed a structural risk. Compliance frameworks can narrow attention to what is measured. What falls outside the checklist is discounted.

 

Evidence and its blind spots

The ISEAL article relies on evidence of measurable gains. Pooran does not dismiss those gains. He questions the framing.

“Evidence is only what you look for,” he says.

Evidence, by definition, reflects past measurement. It captures selected variables. In agriculture, yield increased under intensive methods. Soil degradation, biodiversity loss and nutrient decline were not initially part of the evidence base. They appeared later as “side effects.”

For Pooran, they are not side effects. They are effects that were excluded from focus.

He argues for policy that is “evidence informed” rather than evidence led. Evidence can guide. It cannot define the future. Driving forward by metrics alone risks managing spreadsheets rather than reality.

 

Standards as floor, not frontier

Pooran does not call for the abolition of standards. He assigns them a narrow role.

“Regs for the dregs,” he says, summarising his position with deliberate bluntness.

Standards should prevent the worst practices. They should set a minimum floor. They should not be treated as markers of leadership or innovation.

The danger arises when certification is equated with excellence. Once a badge signals responsibility, incentives shift toward maintaining compliance rather than pursuing structural change.

In his words, it becomes “a promotion of those people who have ticked those boxes as leaders.”

He extends this concern to ESG and corporate certification schemes more broadly. When legitimacy depends on meeting predefined metrics, the conversation narrows. Authenticity gives way to optimisation.

 

The question of corporate purpose

At root, Pooran sees the problem as one of governance rather than disclosure.

He traces a shift from nineteenth-century public benefit incorporation toward twentieth-century shareholder primacy. The latter, in his view, distorts incentives. Standards then attempt to correct outcomes without addressing underlying purpose.

If he could alter one feature of the commercial system, it would be this hierarchy of obligation.

Corporate primacy, he argues, should rest with “human and planetary health,” not solely shareholder return.

Standards might still exist in that world. But they would operate as guardrails, not proof of virtue.

 

Control and complexity

Sustainability standards offer clarity in a complex system. They translate ambition into rules and outcomes into metrics. They create comparability.

Pooran questions whether that clarity is illusory.

If sustainability requires an understanding of interconnectedness, then narrow certification may simplify what cannot be simplified. Systems resist reduction. Interdependence does not fit neatly into a checklist.

The tension remains unresolved. Markets seek certainty. Ecologies operate in relationships.

Standards can measure performance. They cannot, on their own, change the logic of the system being measured.

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Why Only 1% of Building Materials Are Reused

Episode 148 | 23.2.2026

Why Only 1% of Building Materials Are Reused

Tina Snedker Kristensen on the labour, documentation and market failures slowing circular construction.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

An Industry Built on Disposal

The built environment accounts for more than 40 percent of global energy-related CO₂ emissions and over one third of global waste. Yet only around one percent of materials are reused.

The figures expose a structural contradiction. Construction depends on extraction, manufacture and demolition.

Value is embedded in materials, then written off at end of life.

A recent McKinsey analysis argues that circular construction could unlock up to $360 billion in economic value by 2050 and generate 45 million jobs. The opportunity appears material. Adoption remains marginal.

The constraint is not intent. It is system design.

 

From Reduction to Regeneration

Fifteen years ago, Tina Snedker Kristensen encountered the Cradle to Cradle framework. At the time, sustainability discourse centred on minimisation.

“It was all about reducing, reducing consumption, reducing emission,” she says. “Living in a capitalistic world, you just think that’s just not going to happen.”

Cradle to Cradle proposed a different logic. Products should be designed either for biological return or technical reuse. Waste is a design error, not an inevitability.

Tina was then part of the leadership team at Troldtekt A/S, a Danish manufacturer of acoustic panels. Over 27 years, she helped reposition the company from domestic supplier to international brand, embedding certification into corporate strategy.

“It’s not just a stamp that you get,” she says. “You have to work continuously and improve on all five criteria.”

Third-party certification altered internal priorities. Sustainability shifted from communication to operational discipline. Awards followed. Market positioning strengthened. Documentation became a strategic asset.

 

What Circularity Looks Like in Practice

Today, Tina leads BuildDirection, advising companies across Denmark, Germany and Northern Europe on ESG strategy, documentation, branding and international positioning .

Her assessment of circularity in construction is direct. Reuse is technically possible. It is economically and operationally difficult.

She describes inspecting thousands of square metres of acoustic panels installed decades ago. They had been fixed with nails rather than screws. Disassembly damaged the product. Recovery required time and manual handling.

“It would be a bad day at work to dismantle those panels.”

Demolition companies operate under tight timelines. Manual sorting increases cost. Technical performance must be reverified. Ownership of materials can be unclear. Manufacturers may need to buy back used products to guarantee quality.

Each intervention adds friction.

Virgin materials, by contrast, benefit from industrial scale and automation. Reuse rarely does. The price differential reflects labour, not intent.

 

When Demand Outpaces Infrastructure

In Denmark, building regulation now allows reused materials to count as zero CO₂ in life-cycle assessments. Carbon thresholds for new buildings are tightening. Demand for certified reused materials is rising.

The regulatory signal is clear. Supply chains are less prepared.

Buyers often expect reused materials to be cheaper, reflecting second-hand consumer markets. In construction, that assumption collides with cost reality. Labour, certification and recertification increase expense.

Some niche examples demonstrate demand elasticity. Reclaimed bricks, valued for aesthetics, can command premium prices. Most materials do not benefit from architectural scarcity.

Circularity competes against optimised global production systems designed for linear throughput.

 

The Documentation Gap

The most persistent barrier lies in existing building stock.

Most companies retain documentation for limited periods. Beyond that, material composition becomes uncertain. Toxicity, durability and technical performance are often unknown.

“If I had a magic wand,” Tina says, “I would hope that it could sort of scan a building and define which kind of materials are there, what kind of quality do they have.”

Without documentation, reuse carries liability. Risk pricing suppresses uptake.

New buildings can embed digital material passports and design for disassembly. Legacy buildings cannot retroactively provide transparency. Circularity depends on visibility into assets already constructed.

 

Industrialising Reuse

The economic case for circular construction is plausible. The operational model remains immature.

Automation, digitalisation and artificial intelligence may reduce manual inspection and sorting. But industrialising reuse requires capital investment, new logistics models and clearer ownership frameworks.

Circularity does not sit outside capitalism. It must function within it.

Until documentation improves, labour intensity declines and regulation consistently rewards reuse, the system will default to what it understands: extract, build, demolish.

One percent reflects alignment between economics and infrastructure.

The remaining ninety-nine percent reflects what has yet to change.

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Why Compostable Packaging Isn’t the Answer

Episode 147 | 16.2.2026

Why Compostable Packaging Isn’t the Answer

Clare Brass of Moree argues that single-use alternatives preserve the system they claim to reform.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

The Reassurance Economy

Packaging has become a proxy for responsibility. Plastic is replaced with compostable film. Labels promise biodegradability. Procurement teams log progress.

Yet the underlying system remains intact. Single-use packaging continues to move in one direction: from production to disposal.

In conversation on The Responsible Edge, Clare Brass challenged the premise beneath much of this transition. The issue is not simply the material. It is the model.

“Very often if you switch one material for another material, you’re just putting the problem somewhere else.”

Compostables offer reassurance. They allow businesses to signal change while preserving throughput. The transaction remains single use. The waste stream remains active.

 

Formation in Landfill

Clare is Co-founder and Chief Product Officer at Moree, a London-based reusable packaging start-up focused on the coffee sector . She describes herself as a “product design engineer and waste hater” .

Her early career followed a conventional path. She ran a thriving product design studio in Milan for fourteen years . Growth meant more products in the market.

“The more I grew as a designer, the more landfill I generated.”

That realisation altered her direction. In 2002 she began asking whether she could “be a designer without designing stuff” . A Masters in Creative Entrepreneurship at Politecnico di Milano reset her professional trajectory .

She went on to lead sustainability at the Design Council and later founded SustainRCA at the Royal College of Art . The focus shifted from objects to systems.

 

Recycling as False Resolution

The compostable debate, for Claire, is inseparable from recycling. Both sit downstream of the core issue: volume.

“Biodegradable… it sounds all kind of nature friendly and cuddly.”

In practice, compostables require specific infrastructure. Most households do not have it. Consumers cannot easily distinguish between compostable and recyclable plastics. When compostables enter recycling streams, contamination follows. Entire batches can be diverted to landfill.

Claire went further.

“Recycling is probably the worst thing you can do in a circular economy.”

The argument is structural. Mixed plastics degrade in quality. Recycled material rarely returns to its original use. Value diminishes. Meanwhile, production continues to rise.

“There is no way that recycling is ever going to keep pace with the rate at which we are increasingly using single-use packaging.”

Disposal systems are asked to absorb growth. They were never designed for it.

 

Designing Reuse for One Sector

Rather than argue abstractly, Claire has narrowed the problem. Moree focuses on B2B coffee distribution .

Roasteries typically ship coffee in one-kilogram single-use bags. A café ordering fifty kilograms per week receives fifty units. Most are discarded within days.

Moree replaces those with reusable five-kilogram vessels. The packaging is engineered specifically for coffee. It is food safe. It is designed so grounds cannot become trapped. It is flexible rather than rigid, reducing the cost of return logistics.

The system includes tracking software.

“You can see how many bags you own altogether, how many you’ve got currently in stock, and which clients have got all the rest and how long they’ve had them.”

Visibility reduces risk. Clients know where their packaging sits. They can manage returns before shortages occur.

The commercial case is explicit. Over five years, most clients save around fifty percent of packaging costs . Break-even typically occurs within the first year.

The friction lies at the beginning. Upfront capital. Operational change. Customer participation.

 

The Incumbent Constraint

Large packaging companies optimise material efficiency annually. They reduce thickness. They increase recycled content. They improve performance margins.

Their revenue, however, depends on selling units.

“If you ask them to say, okay, we’re not going to do that anymore… I think they would put themselves out of business.”

Transformation at scale threatens existing employment structures, infrastructure, and revenue models. The incentives are misaligned.

Claire suggests experimentation at the margins. Established firms can test alternative models without dismantling their core operations. Start-ups operate outside legacy constraints.

“They’re like little cogs and they’re working together.”

Most will fail. Some will scale. Structural change accumulates gradually.

 

Turning Off the Tap

Claire returns repeatedly to throughput.

“We have to turn off the tap.”

Recycling is the teaspoon in an overflowing bath. Compostables adjust the material of the bathwater. Neither addresses flow.

Reuse is operationally harder. It requires coordination between supplier and customer. It requires tracking. It requires agreement. It introduces friction into what was previously seamless disposal.

Compostables allow continuity. Reuse demands redesign.

For now, Claire’s focus is contained. Demonstrate that reuse works in one sector. Make it commercially viable. Reduce cost and waste simultaneously.

If proof accumulates, replication becomes easier.

The reassurance economy can persist only while the tap remains open.

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Boards Say They’re Prepared for a Cyber Attack. The Evidence Suggests Otherwise

Episode 146 | 11.2.2026

Boards Say They’re Prepared for a Cyber Attack. The Evidence Suggests Otherwise

Joseph Hubback on executive complacency, asset-based protection, and why resilience must be agreed before crisis strikes.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Confidence in the Face of Weekly Attacks

Cyber attacks are no longer exceptional events. They are operational realities. Ransomware halts systems. Data breaches expose customers. Supply chains stall.

Yet most boards remain confident.

Joseph Hubback, Advisory Partner and CISO at Elixirr, reviewed research across roughly 1,000 companies. Ninety-four percent of boards said they felt comfortable with their security posture.

The statistic sits uneasily alongside the frequency of disruption.

“When the attack happens, the CISO will do all they can,” Joseph says, “but it’s the CEO and the executives that will be in the limelight.”

Cyber security, in that moment, becomes executive.

The issue is not whether frameworks exist. It is whether leadership understands what is truly at risk.

 

From Industrial Engineering to Cyber Governance

Joseph did not begin in cyber.

He started as an engineer, building chemical factories at ICI Plc. He later moved into commercial and strategic roles before becoming a partner at McKinsey & Company.

Security entered his career through client work in the late 2000s. It remained.

Today, at Elixirr, he advises clients globally while also serving internally as CISO. The combination keeps him close to both governance questions and operational exposure.

 

The Conversation Has Not Moved On

Executives often repeat that cyber security is no longer just a technical issue. It is a people issue. A leadership issue.

Joseph questions the novelty of that claim.

“Fifteen years ago we were talking about it as a people issue as much as anything else.”

In his view, the language has evolved without changing behaviour. Compliance frameworks have expanded. Certifications are widely pursued. Audit outcomes provide reassurance.

But attackers do not target frameworks. They target value.

The repetition of the insight has not produced structural change.

 

From Compliance to Asset Protection

Joseph believes education efforts are often misdirected.

Organisations train employees to recognise phishing emails and suspicious links. Attack techniques evolve constantly. The training ages quickly.

He proposes a simpler foundation: define the assets.

In the physical world, people instinctively protect wallets and keys. In the digital world, identity, data, intellectual property and operational systems carry equivalent weight. Yet many leadership teams have not clearly defined what must be protected first.

“If you explain to people what it is that is now important for them to protect,” Joseph says, behaviour changes.

At board level, this means identifying the value streams that generate revenue. Which digital systems enable trading. Which processes, if interrupted, would damage trust or liquidity.

In one client example, business leaders and security teams mapped these value streams together. The dynamic shifted. Security ceased to be viewed as “the department that says no” and became aligned with protecting continuity.

The conversation moved from standards to survival.

 

Comfort and Exposure

The 94 percent confidence figure remains central.

Boards often equate completed controls with resilience. Certifications and dashboards provide comfort.

Yet when an attack occurs, decisions escalate immediately.

Do we shut systems down.
Who do we inform first.
How do we communicate with customers.
How do we coordinate employees across regions.

“It becomes a collective exercise,” Joseph says. “When an attack happens, you’ll all be involved.”

The exposure is visible. Accountability shifts to the executive team.

Confidence, in that moment, is tested.

 

From Collaboration to Commitment

Collaboration is frequently cited as the solution.

Industry forums convene. Information is shared. Best practice circulates.

Joseph supports information exchange. He questions whether it goes far enough.

He points to the response following the NotPetya attack on DLA Piper. Clients and competitors provided practical support. Capacity was shared. Documentation was restored. Recovery depended on those relationships.

That cooperation was operational.

Joseph argues that organisations should define such arrangements in advance. Who provides temporary infrastructure. Who safeguards data copies. How supply chains will respond if one party is incapacitated.

Without defined commitments, resilience relies on goodwill.

The distinction is subtle but material. Discussion is not the same as agreement.

 

Urgency After the Breach

Joseph has observed a pattern.

Following a significant attack, executive attention intensifies. Investment rises. Governance improves. The urgency lasts three to four years.

Then it fades.

Digital transformation, however, continues to expand exposure. Cloud infrastructure grows. Systems integrate further. Ecosystems interconnect.

Risk compounds faster than memory.

Cyber security, Joseph argues, is not primarily a technology problem. It is a governance question.

“When the attack happens,” he says, “it’s the CEO and the executives that will be in the limelight.”

Preparation is quiet. The breach is public.

The distance between those two moments is leadership.

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When Behaviour Change Meets the Limits of Ethical Consultancy

Episode 145 | 2.2.2026

When Behaviour Change Meets the Limits of Ethical Consultancy

BH&P founder Becky Holland on working inside flawed systems, and why walking away is not always the responsible choice.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

​Scene and Context

In recent years, agencies have found themselves under scrutiny not just for what they make, but for who they make it for. Campaigns are dissected for greenwashing. Consultancies are questioned for their role in enabling harm. Neutrality has become a fragile defence.

At the heart of this scrutiny sits a difficult question. Should agencies be held accountable for the actions of their clients, even when they do not control the final decisions? Or does refusing to engage simply leave flawed systems untouched?

That question framed a recent episode of The Responsible Edge, where Becky Holland, founder and CEO of BH&P, spoke candidly about the ethical tension baked into values-led consultancy work.

“There’s a lot of damage that can be done by good people working inside bad systems,” she said.

 

Formation Inside the System

Becky has spent her entire career in marketing and advertising. She began in large agencies in the 1990s, working on major brands during a period when long hours and shareholder pressure were the norm. Purpose-led work existed, but usually at the margins.

“The myth was you had to have a retail client, a car client, a finance client, something sexy, and a charity client,” she recalled.

“The charity client didn’t make any money, but everyone wanted to work on it because it made them feel good.”

The imbalance was hard to ignore. Most of the work, she said, existed to keep shareholders happy, whether client-side or agency-side. “You’re working ten, twelve hour days. You spend a lot of time at work. Do you really want it to be that?”

That question stayed with her as she moved between agency, consultancy, and client-side roles, eventually leaving large agencies altogether.

 

A Shift in Purpose

The turning point was not a single moment, but an accumulation of unease. Becky described looking back on campaigns where creative brilliance was used to sell things that “don’t really do any good in the world”.

At the same time, she saw organisations tackling complex social and environmental problems struggling to change behaviour or communicate effectively.

“We can use that creativity. We can use that strategic rigour,” she said. “And we can use it differently.”

BH&P was founded in 2016 around that idea. The agency positioned itself as a behaviour change consultancy working upstream, focused on insight and strategy as much as creative output. The aim was not awareness for its own sake, but measurable change in what people think, feel, and do.

 

The Work and the Grey Areas

Today, BH&P works primarily in sectors where impact is complicated rather than cosmetic. Energy, finance, and technology dominate the client list. Becky described these as industries where “choosing positive impact is exactly that. It is a choice.”

One example discussed was work tackling energy meter tampering and energy crime. Funded by the energy sector and delivered through the Retail Energy Code, the programme enables anonymous reporting, makes dangerous properties safe, and directs vulnerable households to support.

On the surface, such work could be dismissed as reputation management. Becky was direct about that criticism.

“You could argue it’s greenwashing,” she said. “It isn’t. It is a very specific initiative that is done to keep people safe. And it works.”

For her, the ethical test is not the sector alone, but the consequence of the work itself.

 

Interrogating the Brief

Becky was clear that most ethical failures begin long before delivery. They start with accepting a brief at face value.

“The brief will be written to look good,” she said. “What you have to do is put your critical lens on it and go, ‘Which means what?’”

At BH&P, behavioural frameworks normally used with clients are applied internally. Capability, opportunity, and motivation are assessed not just for audiences, but for the organisation commissioning the work.

Is the client capable of change? Do they have the opportunity to act? Are they genuinely motivated, or simply managing reputation?

Sometimes, the answer is instinctive. “You probably know the first time you read the brief,” Becky said. “We don’t give gut feel enough credit in business.”

 

The Pressure to Compromise

Becky acknowledged how difficult refusal can be, particularly for smaller agencies. Ethical clarity becomes harder when livelihoods are involved.

“If you’re a ten-person company and you’ve got a million-pound contract on the table, and halfway through you realise this isn’t good, that’s a moral dilemma,” she said. “You’ve got people paying their mortgages.”

That reality, she argued, is why rigorous upfront interrogation matters. It is also why blanket judgments about “bad actors” are unhelpful.

“There’s very rarely black and white,” she said. “Sometimes there is. But not very often.”

 

Standards, Absolutes, and Unintended Consequences

The conversation turned to professional standards, particularly B Corp certification. Recent rule changes now limit how much revenue agencies can earn from fossil fuel companies.

Becky understands the intent, but worries about the effect.

“It potentially goes against the opportunity to get inside those organisations and cause good,” she said.

Her concern is not about defending harmful practices, but about losing access to the places where the biggest change is needed. Ethical work, she argued, often happens inside uncomfortable systems.

 

Closing Reflection

Becky ended with a call for accountability that goes beyond outputs. Not just what agencies deliver, but what their work actually does.

“If every agency had to demonstrate not just what they’ve delivered, but what impact it’s had on society, the environment, governance,” she said, “it would change the incentives.”

It is not a comforting vision. It offers no moral purity and no easy refusals. But it reflects the reality Becky has spent her career navigating.

Change, she believes, rarely comes from standing outside and pointing. It comes from staying inside long enough to make responsibility unavoidable.

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