Rum Without the Hangover: Inside a Carbon Negative Distillery

Episode 127 | 26.9.2025

Rum Without the Hangover: Inside a Carbon Negative Distillery

A scientist and a marketer in Devon built Two Drifters to show that British rum can be made from scratch without harming the planet.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Two people, one promise: if they were going to make rum in Devon, it would not damage the planet. That promise is at the heart of Two Drifters, the carbon negative distillery started by Russ and Gemma Wakeham. In this on site episode of The Responsible Edge, we walked through the warm, sugary air of their working distillery to learn how science, data and storytelling come together in a bottle of British rum.

 

The Origin Story

Their journey with rum began long before it became a business. Their first date was at a rum tasting in Bristol. Their honeymoon was in St Lucia, where, as Gemma remembers, rum was “cheaper than water.” After years of moving for Russ’s chemistry career, from Vancouver to Wales, they wanted to raise their daughter back home in Devon. That choice collided with a bigger idea: build a distillery that makes rum from scratch in Britain, not just blends it, and do it in a way where growth does not mean more emissions.

“It won’t be my business that hurts the planet,” says Gemma.

“If we’re going to do this, we’ll do it with everything we have, without adding to global warming.”

 

From Why to How: Making Carbon Negative Rum

Russ looked at the challenge as a scientist. The first step was to measure everything. They carried out a full life cycle assessment, looking at every stage from sugar cane and molasses to pallets, couriers, bars, ice cubes, and glass recycling. The results were eye opening. Sugar inputs carry a big share of the impact. The use phase matters too. And global sugar supply chains are hard to trace.

The solution is not a slogan, it is a system. First, reduce impacts wherever possible. Then, remove what is left through permanent carbon removal. The distillery works with direct air capture so removals are real and can be checked.

“You build the business so that cutting comes first, because removals are expensive, and you only remove what you cannot cut,” Russ explains.

 

Credibility Over Hype

The couple are honest about trade offs. Gemma recalls turning down a tempting London Underground ad campaign after learning that the posters used laminated plastic and paper with a heavy footprint.

“You can’t talk about sustainability on an unsustainable platform,” she says.

These choices are easier when carbon has a real cost inside your business plan. Russ calls it an in house carbon price: a simple way of thinking that pushes every choice, from bottles to transport to advertising, toward lower impact.

And they don’t expect customers to buy for the planet. “First bottles are earned on taste and quality,” Gemma says.

“But the second bottle? That’s where our story helps.”

Tours often turn curiosity into loyalty. Visitors leave having seen the science and the ethos up close.

 

Storytelling That Stands Up

This episode looks at The Power of Climate Storytelling, and Two Drifters is a live case study. Gemma’s role is to keep the story joyful and clear. Russ focuses on the data, making sure it would survive a scientist’s review. Their advice for other founders: pick one issue you really care about, measure it properly, be honest about the gaps, and start now. If you use sustainability only as a marketing tool, it will backfire. If you design the business around it, the marketing will take care of itself.

 

The Big Vision

When asked about the future, Gemma dreams of a destination distillery where visitors can see carbon systems in action, pedal to make power, and learn why certain bottles or closures are used. In her words, it should be sustainability made visible and fun. Russ wants the numbers to add up at scale. He sees a challenger brand that proves internal carbon pricing and credible removals can build profit and force the big players to react.

“Make it profitable, and change follows,” he says. “Price carbon properly, and the market will do the rest.”

 

Closing Takeaway

Two Drifters is not selling virtue. It is selling excellent rum built on a system that refuses to pass hidden costs onto others. That is the responsible edge here: lead with product, back it with proof, and make the tough choices clear. If more founders did this, climate storytelling would not need to sugarcoat the message, it would simply tell the truth.

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Less Profit, More Livable Planet: Rethinking Construction’s Future

Episode 126 | 19.9.2025

Less Profit, More Livable Planet: Rethinking Construction’s Future

Construction expert Saul Humphrey says the path to net zero is not about shiny technology. It begins with choosing the right materials, reusing what we already have, and thinking beyond the next quarter’s profit.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

When Saul talks about the future of construction, he doesn’t start with solar panels or smart tech. He starts with timber, hemp, stone, and an uncomfortable truth: we are building on a planet with limits.

As Senior Vice President of The Chartered Institute of Building, a professor of sustainable construction, and the managing partner of a certified B Corp consultancy, Saul has seen every side of the industry. His message is simple but powerful: the greenest building is often the one we don’t demolish, and every fraction of a degree of warming we prevent still matters.

 

Rethinking Value

For Saul, the conversation about sustainability has to start with something most executives understand: money.

Most appeals to “do the right thing” don’t change boardroom behaviour. But when framed in terms of long-term value, the case for sustainable choices becomes harder to ignore.

“Telling someone they must be more sustainable isn’t that compelling. If you can link it to value—whole-life cost, premium asset value, avoiding stranded assets—then you can shape a commercially sound reason to do the right thing.”

This is where his own career has taken him. Starting out at sixteen on a Youth Training Scheme, Saul worked his way up through hands-on delivery roles before moving into senior leadership. Today, his consultancy is focused on proving that sustainable construction is not just good for the planet, but also good business.

 

The Carbon We Forget

The building industry often celebrates its progress on energy efficiency and renewables. But Saul says that is only half the story.

Most of the carbon footprint is not in heating or lighting, but in the materials themselves.

“As the grid decarbonises, embodied carbon becomes the heaviest footprint.”

Concrete, steel, and bricks carry huge emissions before a building is even occupied. To tackle this, Saul champions alternatives such as cross-laminated timber, glulam, hemp, stone, and rammed earth. These options are not just theoretical; many are proven and available today.

 

Fear After Grenfell

Despite these options, the industry has been slow to change. Saul points to the aftermath of the Grenfell tragedy as one reason why.

The disaster made companies and regulators retreat into what felt safe: concrete, brick, and steel. While that caution is understandable, Saul argues it has gone too far.

“In domestic two-storey homes there’s absolutely no reason we shouldn’t be using more bio-based materials.”

The barriers now are less about safety and more about regulation, insurance, and supply chains. To move forward, costs must be assessed across the entire life of a building, not just the cheapest upfront option.

 

Retrofit Before Rebuild

If Saul had one rule for the sector, it would be this: stop tearing down and start improving what we already have.

“We’ve got to stop demolishing things. The most sustainable building is the one that’s already been built.”

By 2050, around 26 million homes will still be standing. Retrofitting them, making them more energy-efficient, and shifting them to renewable energy should be the priority. Only then, Saul argues, should we focus on new builds — and those should be designed with low-carbon materials from the start.

 

Beyond Growth

At the heart of Saul’s thinking lies a bigger challenge: our obsession with growth.

“Perpetual growth on a finite planet simply can’t be sustainable.”

He isn’t arguing for decline or scarcity. Instead, he wants to redefine what abundance looks like: homes that are healthy, communities that are safe, and societies that value wellbeing over endless consumption. Leaders, he says, must be willing to measure success not in quarters, but in generations.

 

Every Degree Matters

Despite the scale of the challenge, Saul refuses to give in to despair.

“Two degrees is bad. Two-point-five is awful. Three is shocking. But 2.9 is better than 3.0. Every tenth of a degree saved preserves possibility.”

That perspective shapes his agenda as incoming CIOB President. His focus is on spreading materials literacy, pushing retrofit-first thinking, and embedding ESG in a way that protects both financial performance and planetary survival.

 

Closing: A Longer Horizon

When asked what change he would like to see in business, Saul’s answer was quick and clear:

“Encourage all to look for longer-term outcomes.”

He believes the industry must step back from short-term profits and start designing for the generations that will inherit what we build. In a sector built on concrete, it may be the most important foundation of all.

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Be a Rebel, Be a Pirate: Mark Goyder on Purpose, Failure, and the Future of Business

Episode 125 | 15.9.2025

Be a Rebel, Be a Pirate: Mark Goyder on Purpose, Failure, and the Future of Business

From community service to corporate boardrooms, Mark Goyder shares his journey of failure, reinvention, and purpose—exploring what it really takes to build responsible companies and why leaders must sometimes ‘be a rebel, be a pirate.’

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

What does it take to lead a life shaped not by convention, but by values? For Mark Goyder, the founder of Tomorrow’s Company and a lifelong advocate for responsible business, the answer lies in embracing failure, resisting conformity, and holding fast to a sense of purpose that transcends profit.

Speaking on The Responsible Edge podcast, Mark reflects on a career that has spanned politics, business leadership, and decades of work pushing companies to rethink their role in society. His story is less about climbing a straight ladder and more about weaving together experiences—volunteering, factory work, political campaigns, and boardroom debates—into a philosophy of leadership rooted in human values.

 

From Quaker Roots to Cambridge Disillusionment

Mark’s early influences were profoundly shaped by family. His mother, of Quaker origins, embodied calm resilience, while his father campaigned for responsible business long before it was fashionable. Sent away to boarding school, Mark witnessed the racism and elitism of the system, sparking a radical streak.

But it was through community service volunteering—working with Punjabi communities in Shropshire and later with young offenders—that he discovered his ability to lead, persuade, and organise.

“Suddenly,” he recalls, “I found I could communicate, I could persuade people to do things.”

It was a turning point that revealed leadership as service, not authority.

 

Failure as a Teacher

Mark’s career, by his own admission, was not a linear path. After roles in HR and general management, he entered politics with the Social Democratic Party, standing for parliament twice and serving on Kent County Council. Despite tireless campaigning, he saw little electoral progress. Personally, he also faced the devastating loss of his infant son—an experience that reframed his sense of failure.

“Nothing succeeds like failure,” Mark says.

The lessons he thought were distractions—writing press releases, building grassroots campaigns, persuading people on limited resources—later became the foundations for his work with Tomorrow’s Company. Failure, in his words, is never wasted.

 

The Birth of Tomorrow’s Company

In 1990, Mark was invited by Charles Handy to direct a programme at the RSA that asked the radical question: What is a company for? The resulting Tomorrow’s Company inquiry brought business leaders together to explore the role of purpose and relationships in corporate success. Its landmark 1995 report introduced the concept of “enlightened shareholder value,” later enshrined in UK company law.

For Mark, this was a pivotal moment: a chance to translate years of hard-won lessons into a new vision for business.

“Human business is effective business,” he argues.

Purpose and values, once seen as “soft” add-ons, are now recognised as central to success.

 

Protecting Purpose in a Corporate World

One of the central questions Mark wrestles with today is how companies can retain their values once they grow or are sold. He points to the Ben & Jerry’s-Unilever saga as a cautionary tale. Founders can write protections into agreements, but ownership structures and market pressures often erode original purpose.

“The idea that you can talk about a purposeful company independent of talking about ownership is for the birds,” he insists.

True purpose requires governance that ties values to decision-making at every stage—what he calls the “seven ages of the company.”

 

Reinventing for the Next Generation

Now, Tomorrow’s Company is turning its attention to education, working with schools to help 14- and 15-year-olds discover their potential and imagine new ways of engaging with work. It’s a return to Mark’s own formative experiences with community service, completing a circle that began in Shropshire decades ago.

At the same time, he is championing “game-changing ideas” with networks of responsible business organisations—from new governance models to place-based investment. The goal is not just incremental change, but systemic reform.

 

A Rebel’s Advice

If there’s one message Mark offers to young leaders, it’s this: don’t let conventional definitions of success box you in.

“Be a rebel, be a pirate if that’s what it takes to reconnect with the real soul inside you,” he says.

For someone who has combined politics, business, and activism into a restless, values-driven career, the advice rings true. The future of responsible business, as he sees it, belongs not to those who follow the rules, but to those willing to challenge them.

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Fashion Talks Big on Sustainability — But Struggles to Deliver

Episode 124 | 8.9.2025

Fashion Talks Big on Sustainability— But Struggles to Deliver

Simon Whitmarsh-Knight, Global Marketing and Sustainability Director at Hyosung, doesn’t call himself a leadership guru. But ask him what really matters and his answer is simple:

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

“For me, it starts and finishes with people. Think about the effect we have on people, how you make them feel, how we communicate.”

That people-first mindset now shapes how he sees one of fashion’s biggest challenges: the gap between endless sustainability talk and meaningful action.

 

The Problem: Conferences Without Clarity

Simon’s biggest frustration is how the textile industry handles sustainability.

“We have lots of sustainability conferences… but what I miss sometimes is, okay, what happens next?”

He describes a sector weighed down by acronyms — ESPR, CSRD, CSDDD — while still running on outdated processes. Brands talk about change, but the follow-through is patchy. The result? Confusion, delay, and missed chances to cut waste and emissions.

 

The Three Pillars of Change

The article Simon had read before coming on the show, Get Ready for the EU’s Eco-Design and Digital Product Passports, gave him a phrase he couldn’t shake:

“For some reason the words holy trinity came to me… because the article was talking about the three things that are so important in industry: one, regulation; two, digital tools; and three, fibre innovation.”

For clarity, he frames them as three pillars:

  • Regulation gives brands a clear North Star on durability, repairability and recyclability. “There’s nothing more sustainable than a garment that lasts.”

  • Digital Product Passports can cut waste from endless samples and offer traceability. “In a few years, we’ll be looking back saying, gosh, why didn’t we do this sooner?”

  • Fibre Innovation is where Hyosung places its bets: recycled elastane, mono-material garments, and new bio-based fibres from corn and sugar cane. “Either we’ll invent something that will help us with the recycling, or a new product will evolve that delivers the benefits of elastane but supports a more efficient recycling process.”

 

The Elephant in the Room

Still, Simon doesn’t dodge the harder truth:

“On a personal level, I would find it hard to disagree that we probably have all the things we need right now and don’t need lots of extra stuff.”

He knows innovation won’t solve everything if fast fashion’s appetite for more keeps growing. But his view is pragmatic: “Trying to do something to move us in the right direction is better than nothing and waiting around for a perfect answer.”

 

The Magic Wand: Clarity

If given the chance to change one thing about the industry overnight, Simon wouldn’t ask for new tech or subsidies. He’d ask for focus.

“We have lots of sustainability conferences, events, discussions, panels… My challenge would be, how can we almost do a meta-analysis of all of those different things? That highlights four or five critical things… and then you’ve got such a powerful platform. For me, clarity of purpose is really important. And that leads to action.”

 

Leading Responsibly

For Simon, responsible leadership isn’t about perfection. It’s about persistence. Progress over paralysis. Collaboration over competition.

“None of us can do this on our own. The problems are too big. We need to collaborate.”

That, he argues, is the only way to turn fashion’s three pillars into more than words.

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Beyond Reporting: Why Rebecca Ward Thinks Sustainability Needs a Financial Reckoning

Episode 123 | 25.8.2025

Beyond Reporting: Why Rebecca Ward Thinks Sustainability Needs a Financial Reckoning

In a small tin-roofed meeting shed in London, where the summer heat clings to metal walls, Rebecca Ward is quietly reimagining what it means to lead responsibly. At just the start of her career, the Senior Sustainability Strategist at Radley Yeldar is already focused on a question that may define the next decade of corporate responsibility: how do we make sustainability matter to those who make the biggest decisions?

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Her answer is deceptively simple: follow the money.

“If we can quantify the financial impact of aspects of sustainability, it will get the attention of the people that make the decisions,” Rebecca explains. “It pains me to say it, but money makes the world go round. So why don’t we try and make it work for us?”

This pragmatic, almost clinical recognition—that the path to impact runs through balance sheets—sets Rebecca apart from many in her field. For her, leadership isn’t about inspiring slogans or glossy ESG reports; it’s about building a language that boards and CFOs can’t ignore.

 

From Science to Strategy

Rebecca’s path into sustainability was neither linear nor preordained. A geophysics degree at Durham gave her the tools to interrogate the natural world—from the mechanics of California wildfires to the physics of the Earth’s core. But it was the undeniability of climate science, laid bare by her lecturers, that sharpened her resolve.

“These lecturers were able to describe it and put out the evidence in such a way that it felt so undeniable that I just couldn’t ignore it basically.”

Yet her first job, in a manufacturing firm, revealed a different frontier: gender inequality. Just 25% of the workforce were women. Rebecca threw herself into a gender balance working group, pushing back against everyday microaggressions and building awareness. Responsibility, she realised, is as much about culture as carbon.

 

The Double Materiality Moment

Today, Rebecca works at the cutting edge of “double materiality”—the idea that sustainability is no longer just about a company’s impact on the planet, but also the planet’s impact on the company. The EU’s CSRD regulations have made this dual lens unavoidable.

For Rebecca, this shift represents both a professional opportunity and a philosophical pivot: finally, the environmental crises of our age are being translated into the one language corporations fully understand—risk and return.

But she warns against complacency. Reports, she notes, can often feel like sterile artefacts of what’s already happened. The challenge is to make them drivers of change—spotlights that illuminate failure and possibility in equal measure.

 

Women in STEM, and the Power of Storytelling

Rebecca is also passionate about who gets to shape these narratives. Having studied in male-dominated science departments, she has seen how representation—or its absence—matters.

She lights up when discussing a recent article celebrating women scientists whose contributions have been forgotten, their names erased from the textbooks.

“If we want to get more women and young girls interested in science and then studying it, potentially then having a career in it, they need to see the role models and feel inspired by them.”

Here, communication is as critical as science. The stories that stick—the ones that change who sees themselves as a “scientist”—are often told not through reports, but through film, books, even TikTok reels. Sustainability, in other words, is as much cultural as it is technical.

 

Leadership at the Edge

What does it take to lead responsibly in this environment? For Rebecca, it is the ability to hold two ideas in tension: optimism and realism.

“Some of the clients I work with make me feel better about it. Some of them don’t… but I think you have to remain optimistic in this job, or what’s the point?”

That pragmatism is a lesson for leaders everywhere. Hope without realism is naivety; realism without hope is paralysis. The responsible edge lies in the uncomfortable space between.

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