Why Sustainability Still Needs Its Swiss Army Knife

Episode 98 | 22.5.2025

Why Sustainability Still Needs Its Swiss Army Knife

If you want to understand the moral mechanics of modern business, you could do worse than to spend 40 minutes with Jack Cunningham. A former ESG leader at Marks & Spencer, Kingfisher, and Sainsbury’s—and now a sought-after strategic adviser—Jack joins The Responsible Edge to unpack the complex tension between commercial leadership and corporate responsibility.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

And as he explains, today’s sustainability professionals aren’t simply under-resourced. They’re tasked with being polymaths—strategists, diplomats, auditors, and ethicists—all under growing scrutiny and with shrinking support.

“Sustainability is like a Swiss Army knife. It does a little bit of everything,” Jack says. “But unfortunately, it always seems to be the department that gets its legs chopped off first.”

 

🛠️ The Rise—and Frustration—of the Corporate Generalist

Jack’s journey began not in a boardroom, but in the wilds of the UK’s Peak District, where childhood experiences in nature formed the roots of his professional ethos. After studying zoology and later earning a master’s in environmental technology at Imperial College London, he entered the workforce at a time when sustainability wasn’t yet codified—it was a curiosity, a cost, or a PR side note.

Now, two decades on, Jack is deeply embedded in the inner workings of ESG governance. But the job has changed. Dramatically.

Sustainability teams are, he argues, often the first to face cuts. And even when intact, their scope is impossibly broad:

  • Ensure compliance with a shifting regulatory landscape.

  • Build internal cross-departmental governance systems.

  • Communicate externally with credibility and legal precision.

  • Shape long-term strategy while responding to daily crises.

All with skeleton staff, tight budgets, and intensifying political pressure.

“We’re expected to be crystal ball mind readers, functional experts, accountants, legal gurus—literally everything under the sun.”

 

⚖️ Green Hushing, Political Polarisation & the Ethics of Silence

One of the most revealing parts of Jack’s conversation centres on communication—or the growing reluctance to do so. Reflecting on a 2023 Axios article about the trend towards subtler ESG messaging, Jack doesn’t dispute the phenomenon, but he adds a more human angle.

Green hushing, he argues, can be soul-destroying. Not just because it silences companies, but because it silences the people within them trying to do the right thing.

“Not being able to say something can be heartbreaking. There aren’t many regular places for people in sustainability to get their stories across.”

This isn’t about silencing fluff—it’s about losing the stories and case studies that drive peer-to-peer innovation and cross-sector learning. And while Jack believes internal collaboration will endure, he warns that without external communication, public understanding will continue to fragment.

“We need to encourage better decision-making by consumers. We can only do that if we talk and engage and communicate.”

 

🧭 The Say-Do Gap & Brand Activism

Jack’s insights into brand alignment are refreshingly nuanced. While there’s clear fatigue with companies hopping on every social cause, Jack resists the idea that corporates are purely cynical or performative.

He identifies a more structural problem: companies are increasingly reactive—nudged by NGOs, employees, trade groups, even rivals—into engagement. That’s not inherently bad. But it raises big questions:

  • Are we aligning with this issue because we believe in it, or because we fear being left behind?

  • Do we have the systems, strategy, and budget in place to act on it?

  • Will this be a sustained commitment or a one-month campaign?

“There needs to be a little more pragmatism and seriousness about what the company is going to be able to do before it says what it’s going to do.”

Jack isn’t calling for less ambition—he’s calling for more integrity.

 

🎯 The Magic Wand? Give Sustainability the Tools It Needs

Asked what he’d do with a magic wand, Jack doesn’t hesitate. He wouldn’t conjure up more pledges or frameworks. He’d give sustainability professionals what most already have to beg for: adequate resources.

“I’d wish my colleagues had the tools, the budgets, the buy-in. We can’t keep expecting strategic transformation from underfunded teams.”

It’s not just a plea for fairness—it’s a warning. Without structural investment, the very people tasked with delivering long-term value will burn out before they ever reach the summit.

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How the Interiors Industry Can Make Sustainability Irresistible

Episode 97 | 18.5.2025

How the Interiors Industry Can Make Sustainability Irresistible

In a world obsessed with novelty, how do you make reuse glamorous? That’s the question quietly driving Mirry Christie, founder of sustainability consultancy B·ABLE, as she champions systemic change within one of the most style-obsessed—and waste-prone—industries: interiors. As a former Marketing Director turned impact strategist, Mirry is helping businesses redefine success by making sustainability an integral part of their brand, culture, and commercial value.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

“People still think sustainability is a cost,” she tells The Responsible Edge. “But it’s a strategy for long-term relevance.”

 

🛋️ Sustainability’s Image Problem

Let’s be honest: in the interiors world, luxury has long been defined by newness. A redesigned kitchen, a showroom-fresh sofa, or a perfectly curated look. As Mirry explains, this traditional mindset often clashes with a planet in crisis.

“Sustainability still gets shrugged off as second-best or second-hand,” she says. “But increasingly, it’s becoming an additional value add—something people are proud of.”

The challenge? Convincing both clients and interior designers that responsible design doesn’t mean compromising on beauty or luxury. That requires education, better data, and most importantly, better storytelling.

 

🎯 Key Challenges in Sustainable Interiors

Mirry pinpoints five friction points currently hampering progress:

  • 📦 Packaging & Waste – Furniture needs serious protection in transit, often creating mountains of non-recyclable waste.

  • 🛋️ Big Format, Big Emissions – Think sofas, dining tables, lighting—hard to move, store, or dispose of sustainably.

  • 🔥 Sofa Safety Regs – UK fire safety rules make recycling upholstered furniture a nightmare.

  • 🧾 Transparency – Designers are often in the dark about supply chains. Brands need to give them better product data.

  • 💰 The Perception of Cost – Many still believe sustainability must be more expensive, which simply isn’t true.

“There are huge opportunities for brands that get ahead of this,” she argues. “If you build with transparency, you build loyalty, and that builds long-term commercial value.”

 

🌱 Meet the Green Room

To help tackle some of these barriers, Mirry co-founded The Green Room with Jules Haines (of Haines Collection). What began as a casual pub chat with a few industry peers has grown into a thriving forum of over 50 interiors brands—big and small—committed to sharing knowledge, cutting corners (ethically), and ditching the industry’s culture of secrecy.

“No question is too stupid in the Green Room,” Mirry jokes. “We get everyone round the table—literally and figuratively—to learn from each other.”

Roundtables, webinars, open-source guides: The Green Room is what the interiors industry desperately needed—somewhere to find inspiration and practical help.

 

🔮 What’s Next? (And What Keeps Her Going)

At B·ABLE, Mirry works with SMEs across industries, but interiors remains close to her heart. Her goal? Empower teams to act, not just outsource sustainability to one poor soul in the comms department.

“99% of UK companies are SMEs. They don’t have ESG teams. They need simplicity, structure and clarity—and someone to help them communicate it all properly.”

She hopes the long-term legacy of her work will be a generation of brands that don’t just market responsibility—they practice it, collaboratively.

And if she had a magic wand?

“I’d change the perception of sustainability. It’s not a tick box. It’s a growth strategy. It’s your best chance to thrive.”

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Why SMEs Hold the Key to a Greener Future

Episode 96 | 15.5.2025

Why SMEs Hold the Key to a Greener Future

It’s easy to imagine climate action as the domain of sprawling corporates, global brands, and powerful institutions. But according to Kat Christopoulos — Chartered Energy Engineer, sustainability consultant, and Head of ESG at Cloudfm — that’s not where the real leverage lies.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

In a world teetering on ecological tipping points, Kat is betting on something smaller, more agile, and often overlooked: the SME.

“Each small business is part of a bigger business,” Kat says. “And if we’re going to shift the system, this is where it starts.”

 

🧩 Why SMEs Matter More Than You Think

Kat’s experience spans some of the biggest names in finance, tech, and facilities management — from Barclays to ISS. But it’s through working with small and medium-sized enterprises that she’s seen the most rapid, tangible change.

SMEs:

  • Are closer to their people, suppliers, and communities

  • Can make big changes without long bureaucratic chains

  • Often have leaders directly involved in sustainability decision-making

  • Can drive transformation up the supply chain, influencing bigger players

“I helped a relocation company switch from diesel to hydrotreated vegetable oil (HVO). Overnight, they cut emissions by 90% — and it took one conversation with the CEO.”

 

📉 What’s Holding SMEs Back?

Despite the potential, many SMEs are still lagging behind. The barriers Kat identifies are both structural and cultural:

  • ❌ Limited budgets

  • ❌ Lack of in-house expertise

  • ❌ Unclear standards or frameworks

  • ❌ Misconception that ESG is a luxury, not a necessity

She argues that the watering down of CSRD reporting requirements for SMEs is a missed opportunity. “Ironically, they’re the ones who would benefit most from frameworks like double materiality. It helps them understand where they should act — and why it’s not just about carbon, but risk, resilience, and opportunity.”

 

📈 Small Businesses, Big Influence

Kat is clear: action at the SME level doesn’t just result in smaller footprints. It creates pressure from below, challenging larger corporates to evolve.

“It’s not just about compliance. It’s about value creation. SMEs can offer sustainable products and services that make their clients’ ESG strategies easier.”

Think: sustainable relocation services, circular supply chain solutions, low-carbon facilities support — all being developed by nimble, purpose-led SMEs.

 

🌱 A Personal Model for Systems Change

Kat now balances her consultancy work with local sustainability projects in Spain — including drought-resilient garden design. The personal connection with nature keeps her work grounded and energised.

“There’s no growth in the comfort zone. You have to do the hard thing. That’s how change happens — in businesses and in life.”

And what does her magic wand moment look like?

“If I could change one thing, it would be to instil ethics and a sense of responsibility in every business leader. That’s when real change happens — when leadership walks the talk.”

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Can We Fix the Internet by Rethinking Where We Advertise?

Episode 95 | 12.5.2025

Can We Fix the Internet by Rethinking Where We Advertise?

What does it really mean to be a responsible marketer in an age of information overload, online misinformation, and disappearing trust? In this episode of The Responsible Edge, we hear from Bryan Scott, Chief Marketing Officer at Ozone—an advertising platform owned by the UK’s biggest news publishers—about how the mechanics of media buying might be quietly eroding the future of journalism. With over two decades of marketing leadership under his belt, Bryan brings both strategic clarity and personal passion to a conversation that tackles advertising blocklists, digital responsibility, and why fairness still matters in business.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

📰 The Hidden Cost of “Safe” Advertising

For brands eager to protect their reputations, the use of automated blocklists—software that prevents ads from appearing next to controversial or “unsafe” content—can seem like a no-brainer. But Bryan argues that these tools may be creating bigger problems than they solve.

“Some blocklists are so outdated, they’re still excluding content with the word ‘Paris’—not because of the Olympics, but because of terrorist attacks from nearly a decade ago,” Bryan explains.

The result? Advertisers are inadvertently cutting off funding to high-quality journalism. That’s not just bad for news publishers—it’s bad for society.

 

🧠 Rewiring Media Thinking: Why Context Still Matters

Bryan’s team at Ozone has long championed the concept of the premium web—a digital space where content is curated, governed by editors, and subject to standards. In contrast to the “long tail” of clickbait and conspiracy blogs, this is the corner of the internet where trustworthy information still thrives.

“Our partners are handpicked. Every publisher we work with has editorial oversight and audience-first values,” says Bryan.

He believes this environment should be exempt from the blanket-style brand safety tools that treat all content the same. “If we don’t fix this,” he warns, “the flywheel breaks: less ad money means lower investment in journalism, less engagement, and a further drop in trust.”

 

📉 What’s at Stake if We Get This Wrong?

Without intervention, Bryan fears we may drift toward a two-tiered system: those who can afford quality news will pay for it; everyone else will get filtered narratives, algorithmic junk, or nothing at all.

“Everyone should have access to information that helps them make better decisions. Not just those who can pay,” he says. “We’re at risk of losing that.”

It’s not just a philosophical stance—it’s a commercial reality. Publishers need funding to survive. And brands benefit when consumers are reading content in engaged, credible environments.

 

📈 Responsible Advertising ≠ Lower ROI

Many advertisers avoid placing ads next to “hard news” content for fear of reputational damage. But research, including a study of over 70,000 participants by Stagwell (an Ozone partner), has shown that consumers are smarter than that.

“People can separate the news from the ad. Just because your ad is near a Trump tariff story doesn’t mean they associate you with that policy,” Bryan says.

In fact, when placed well, ads in trusted environments often perform better. Bryan references upcoming research with Bountiful Cow that will demonstrate how ads placed without brand safety restrictions performed just as effectively—if not more so.

 

🪄 The Bull** Barometer

Bryan’s magic wand moment? A reality check on corporate values.

“I’d love to invent a kind of BS Barometer—something that shows whether a company really lives its purpose, or whether it’s just jumping on a trend.”

He believes you can spot the difference in the hard choices: “If a brand sticks with its values when times get tough, that’s when you know it’s real.”

 

🧭 Final Thoughts: Finding the Ethical Edge in AdTech

For Bryan, the future of responsible marketing is a balancing act—doing what works and doing what’s right. Ozone is proving that you don’t have to sacrifice ethics to meet business goals. In fact, Bryan believes aligning values with performance is the key to long-term success.

“It’s not about guilt-tripping advertisers. It’s about showing them the results, and giving them a reason to feel good about it too.”

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The Recruiter Who Changed the Game: How Ellen Weinreb Helped Shape the Sustainability C-Suite

Episode 94 | 8.5.2025

The Recruiter Who Changed the Game: How Ellen Weinreb Helped Shape the Sustainability C-Suite

In this episode of The Responsible Edge, Charlie is joined by Ellen Weinreb—pioneering recruiter, entrepreneur, and founder of Weinreb Group—to unpack a thirty-year career spent helping companies build serious sustainability capability. From her formative travels in post-communist Poland to building an ESG-focused search firm before ESG was even a thing, Ellen’s story is a masterclass in how long-term systems change starts with hiring the right people.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

“You don’t have to have sustainability in your title to be a sustainability professional.”

This episode delivers one of the most practical, nuanced, and insightful explorations to date of how the sustainability movement has evolved—and what organisations consistently get wrong when building their teams.

 

The Turning Point: When Ethics Met Enterprise

Ellen didn’t always plan to work in sustainability. As a student, she had her sights set on becoming a stockbroker—until a trip to post-Berlin Wall Poland changed everything. Witnessing educated families struggle with food rationing and clothing scarcity, she realised the power business could have in driving positive social impact.

“I wanted to help. I said, I want to do good with business.”

That insight led to her first informal case of “cause marketing”: importing hand-knit sweaters from Polish women and reselling them at a markup, with profits returned to the community. It wasn’t just smart—it was ethical entrepreneurship in action.

 

From Cameroon to Corporate Boardrooms

Ellen joined the Peace Corps in Cameroon, working with coffee co-operatives and woodcarvers, deepening her understanding of trade, fairness, and international development. This foundation became the launchpad for a sustainability consultancy career, with roles at Levi Strauss, HP, the World Bank, and more.

But a piece of advice changed her trajectory again: “You need to niche.” Recognising her talent for connecting people, Ellen launched Weinreb Group to specialise in one thing: placing changemakers in sustainability roles.

“We put changemakers to work.”

 

What’s Really Happening in the CSO Job Market?

Her firm’s flagship research—the Chief Sustainability Officer Report—tracks the evolution of CSOs in U.S. publicly traded companies. The 2025 edition found:

  • 📊 CSO numbers have grown from 30 in 2011 to 220+ in 2025.

  • ⚖️ Only 50% had sustainability in their prior job title—many came from legal, supply chain, or corporate affairs.

  • 🧠 Top attribute for success? Being a “corporate chameleon.”

“You need at least one person to own it. Someone who can interpret the external world and influence internally.”

 

Common Mistakes Companies Make

Ellen was candid about where companies go wrong:

  • Underestimating the role: “They think they can just hire a junior person. Then they realise, this is way bigger than anticipated.”

  • Prioritising compliance over impact: “It’s easy to lose sight of strategy in the fog of regulation.”

  • Not aligning with business strategy: “Sustainability has to make business sense. It’s not just philanthropy anymore.”

 

The Future of Sustainability Leadership

What skills will tomorrow’s CSOs need?

  • Financial fluency: understanding the language of CFOs and audit teams

  • Strategic systems thinking: balancing macro trends with granular data

  • Internal diplomacy: navigating complex stakeholder ecosystems

  • Adaptability: “Being a chameleon” across departments and agendas

“The CSO needs to speak the language of whoever they’re talking to—legal, finance, supply chain. It’s about embedding, not siloing.”

 

✨ Magic Wand Moment

If Ellen could change one thing in the commercial world?

“I’d give consumers full information. So they could make truly informed choices.”

It’s a deceptively simple goal—but one that underpins the entire ESG movement.

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When Doing the Right Thing Is Too Expensive: Why Sustainable Startups Still Struggle to Scale

Episode 93 | 4.5.2025

When Doing the Right Thing Is Too Expensive: Why Sustainable Startups Still Struggle to Scale

In a world where the climate crisis intensifies by the week, we might expect bold progress from our biggest institutions. Yet when a global alliance of banks steps back from its net-zero commitments, it’s a sign not just of political fragility—but of something far deeper: the broken economics of climate action.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Kate Chilton, Chief Sustainability Officer and Chief of Staff at BamCore, has experienced both the corporate and startup sides of sustainability. After starting her career at Accenture and working her way into the core of climate startups, she now finds herself in the thick of it—caught between investor expectations, startup survival, and the uncompromising realities of planetary boundaries.

In this episode of The Responsible Edge, Kate takes us on a journey through the messiness of real-world sustainability: the idealism, the disillusionment, and the flickers of optimism that still make the fight worth it.

 

What Happens When Net Zero Becomes “Too Expensive”?

The catalyst for the conversation is Bloomberg’s recent report on the Net Zero Banking Alliance (NZBA), a group of major banks committed to aligning their lending with the Paris Agreement. One by one—U.S. banks, Canadian banks, and then Japanese banks—have stepped away from the group.

Why? According to Kate, the answer is chillingly simple:

“By exiting NZBA, these banks have sought greater autonomy to set and adjust their environmental strategies without being bound by a commitment to stay aligned to the Paris Agreement—which they now view as a fictitious world.”

Put bluntly: NZBA is aligned with a future that’s becoming increasingly unlikely. And the market will punish banks for focusing on decarbonisation if they are perceived to be giving up earnings potential.

 

“Sustainability Only Works If It Makes Business Sense”

Having worked at a corporate giant like Accenture and now at a bio-based building materials startup, Kate sees the problem from both ends of the spectrum.

“The sustainable decision needs to be the right business decision. We can’t just expect businesses to do the altruistic thing when they are fundamentally mission-driven to turn a profit.”

Startups may be mission-first, but they’re not immune either. Even companies like BamCore, which manufactures climate-positive building products, must navigate a system where clean energy and low-carbon materials still struggle to compete—on cost, supply, and capital access.

 

Built-In, Not Bolted-On

Kate wears two hats—Chief Sustainability Officer and Chief of Staff—which gives her a unique view across the entire organisation.

“Sustainability shouldn’t be an afterthought. It needs to be built in, not bolted on.”

This dual role allows her to connect sustainability to every department—from marketing and product development to sourcing and manufacturing. It’s a model that makes sense for startups—but it’s rare in larger organisations, where ESG still too often sits in a silo.

 

The Capital Gap No One Wants to Talk About

One of the sharpest insights comes when Kate breaks down the climate finance landscape for startups:

  • 🥇 Seed-stage: Government grants, angel investors, climate-focused VCs.

  • 🏗️ Growth-stage: A funding valley between VC and private equity.

  • 🏦 Mature-stage: Shift from equity to debt—often inaccessible for physical solutions that need massive CapEx.

“We’re not playing in electrons—we’re playing in atoms. In order to combat climate change, this is a physical problem. We need physical solutions.”

When capital dries up—particularly for manufacturing-heavy solutions like BamCore—the transition stalls, no matter how compelling the climate case is.

 

Realism vs. Idealism: Can We Still Be Optimistic?

Kate doesn’t sugar-coat it:

“There’s always a little flame of eco-anxiety driving me. But I’ve moved from being an optimist to an optimistic pessimist.”

And yet, there’s still hope:

  • The next generation—Gen Z—is taking climate seriously.

  • Clean energy is reaching cost parity with fossil fuels in more regions.

  • The appetite for systemic change—from carbon pricing to Doughnut Economics—is growing.

“Our financial system is intertwined with emissions… We need to unwind them such that we can make decisions that are still good for our economies but that also drive down emissions.”

 

💬 Kate’s Magic Wand Moment

If given a magic wand, what would Kate change?

“Make it easier for companies that want to be sustainable to succeed.”

It’s a simple ask—but behind it lies a radical truth. We know what to do. We just haven’t made doing the right thing easy—or profitable—enough.

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