Rewiring Business: The Power of Thinking Differently for Real Impact

Episode 47 | 30.10.2024

Rewiring Business: The Power of Thinking Differently for Real Impact

In this episode, sustainability strategist and systems thinker Louisa Harris shares her insights on how purpose-driven business are reimagining narratives to transform strategy, drive innovation and deliver impact. Drawing from her experience as a tutor for the Cambridge Institute of Sustainable Leadership and Head of Sustainability and Systems Change at Brandpie, Louisa discusses the importance of courageous leadership, thinking differently, and making sustainability part of everyone’s role.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

In a decade where business has a critical role to play in accelerating sustainable action, they are also being called upon to demonstrate real impact. The challenge for many lies in moving beyond well-meaning messaging, or worse, purpose washing; to becoming an engine for change. Harris has been at the forefront of this shift, advising companies on how to integrate purpose authentically at every level of their operations.

In a recent conversation, Louisa shared her journey from climate activism to corporate advocacy. She explores how leading businesses think of purpose as more than a marketing narrative, embracing it as a holistic guiding principle that drives strategy, employee action and innovation, and ultimately sustainable impact. Ultimately, she has found that her role in making change happen is anchored in the power of thinking differently. “It’s taken a while for me appreciate that one of the greatest skills I have is being a weird, hybrid thinker who can design pragmatic pathways for change,” Louisa explains, “and that this can be the spark for shifting perspectives and being a catalyst for other people’s innovations.” It’s this philosophy of empowering others that underscores her approach, combining systems thinking and leadership to foster meaningful change across organisations.

 

From Climate Activism to Corporate Responsibility

Louisa’s journey into sustainability did not follow the typical path. Born and raised in London, she developed a connection to nature and sustainability in a roundabout way. Reflecting on her early years, Louisa shares, “I think to me, that proximity to nature, the anchoring and being somewhere a little bit quiet, is a huge part of who I am today,” though her connection to environmental issues truly deepened during university, influenced by climate activists and her participation in environmental protests. This background laid the groundwork for her understanding of the complexities and compromises involved in corporate responsibility.

Louisa’s transition into the business world came after a period of introspection and exploration. After working in an accounting firm, she was tasked with creating a sustainability service line—a radical move at a time when corporate sustainability was barely in its infancy. Recalling this experience, she explains, “It was a time when clients weren’t necessarily coming to us for this work. We had to help them see the potential of sustainability beyond compliance.” This early work shaped her understanding of how sustainability can be woven into the fabric of an organisation, rather than seen as an add-on or an obligation.

 

Embracing Purpose as a Core Business Strategy

Louisa advocates for a purpose-driven business model, where sustainability and responsibility are integrated into the core strategy rather than siloed or relegated to a single department. According to her,

“Purpose has to go beyond brand strategy… It should serve as a North Star, guiding a company’s actions, advocacy, and a catalyst for culture, innovation and systems change.”

In her view, purpose should not be a retrofitted element of an organisation’s identity but rather an evolving framework that drives meaningful decisions at every level.

Her experience with Brandpie and other consultancies has underscored the importance of embedding purpose authentically into the company culture. She explains that successful purpose-driven organisations approach purpose as a continuous journey, rather than a checkbox to be ticked. “When we see every employee as a designer of sustainable practices,” Louisa asserts, “we unlock collective potential.” In this way, Louisa emphasises the importance of cultivating an environment where every employee feel they have a role to play in driving sustainability, regardless of their official job title.

 

The “Purpose Dividend” and a New Way Forward

One of the key insights Louisa shared was the importance of business asking themselves “who is it that their purpose should serve?” and thinking more systemically about how they can use their platform for good. She references a UK study, The Purpose Dividend, which gives a powerful business case for how purpose-driven businesses contribute to broader economic and societal growth. The findings indicate that businesses committed to purpose not only foster innovation but also drive employee satisfaction and economic development.

However, Louisa acknowledges the challenges many organisations face in implementing purpose-led strategies and sustainability initiatives. She points to an industry-wide imbalance between innovation and reporting, noting that “ according to an IBM study, companies today spend 43 times more on reporting than on research and development,” a statistic she finds both unsurprising and disappointing. Compliance and reporting rightly are a huge focus for sustainability leaders, both in terms of time and budget. However, she argues, with limited resources this can often be instead of investing in creativity and innovation—the very ingredients necessary to address complex sustainability challenges.

Louisa’s solution to this issue is to take the time to embed sustainability and purpose into everyone’s role. fostering an imaginative, innovative culture.

“It’s about being willing to experiment,”

she says, urging businesses to cultivate a space where new ideas can flourish without fear of failure. For Louisa, rethinking corporate responsibility involves acknowledging that “crisis of imagination”— fire-fighting and mounting risks can be paralyzing. On a more fundamental level, despite all the science and targets we have to work towards, imagining how a more sustainable, equitable future will run in reality is a big leap for our imaginations, and one people really struggle with. By encouraging companies to “reimagine what is possible,” Louisa believes they can unlock new pathways to impact.

 

Building Capacity for Courageous Leadership

At the heart of Louisa’s vision for corporate sustainability is the idea of courageous leadership.

“It’s often a tiny percentage of an organisation, maybe 1 -5%, who think of sustainability as part of their role. Yet making change happen will need everyone, and skills from every function as well as the sustainability ream.

Louisa explains.

This emphasis on collective responsibility and therefore collective impact is part of Louisa’s broader approach, which she refers to as “systems change.” She advocates for equipping employees with the knowledge and skills necessary to integrate sustainability into their daily work, regardless of their department, where everyone can see themselves as a designer and innovator. “You’re designing your day, your service lines, your organisation’s structure,” Louisa says, highlighting how viewing every individual as a “designer” can transform how sustainability is embedded into an organisation’s DNA.

To foster this mindset, Louisa suggests creating opportunities for employees to engage with sustainability outside of their traditional roles. She believes this not only boosts morale but also strengthens the company’s sustainability efforts. “Purpose isn’t about a small team doing good on the side,” she insists. Instead, it’s about fostering a culture where sustainable thinking is the norm, not the exception.

 

Moving Beyond Compliance: The Role of Innovation and Advocacy

For Louisa, authentic purpose is far more than words and a meaningful sustainability strategy is more than just meeting compliance standards—it’s about rethinking the role of business in society. She encourages companies to take a more active role in advocacy, using their influence to drive systemic change at an industry level.

“Purpose should serve as a North Star, not only guiding internal policies but also shaping the organisation’s role in the broader ecosystem,”

she says.

Louisa’s advocacy-oriented approach calls on businesses to partner with industry groups, governments, and NGOs to tackle large-scale issues. For example, she points to coalitions in the banking and beauty industries that have come together to address challenges like net-zero emissions and sustainable sourcing. “Find the problems that you can’t solve alone, and work with others to shift the dial,” she advises. This collaborative, problem-solving approach is, in Louisa’s view, essential for making a lasting impact.

 

Creating a Legacy of Meaningful Impact

This podcast was recorded just as Louisa has founded her new project Curiously Liminal, focusing on activating courageous leadership, collective impact and systems innovation. Doing so is part of a moment’s pause and inquiry into where she can make the most impact. When asked what she would like to look back on and say her legacy has been she says: “I want to be able to look back and know that the interventions I chose to spend my time on in this critical decade, really did made a difference.” Her goal, she explains, is not just to help companies implement sustainable practices but to create a lasting culture of curiosity, courage, and collaboration.

In her view, this is the real promise of purpose-driven business—a way to align business strategy and skills with the pressing needs of society. Louisa’s message to organisations is simple: purpose is not a destination but a journey, one that requires constant adaptation, engagement, and a willingness to challenge the status quo.

As companies continue to navigate the evolving landscape of responsible business, Louisa’s insights offer a blueprint for those committed to making a genuine impact. By embracing purpose in your core business strategy as an engine for innovation , fostering a culture of courageous leadership, and prioritising collaboration over competition, businesses have the power to become agents of positive change in a world that urgently needs it.

 

For a Truly Sustainable Future


👉 Become a signatory of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, publish your Green Claims Policy, and be recognised for your commitment to responsible sustainability communications.

Want to be a guest on our show?

Contact Us.

The Responsible Edge Podcast
Queensgate House
48 Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR

Recognition.

Subscribe Now.

Subscribe below to receive a monthly email featuring all new episodes of The Responsible Edge Podcast and updates from The Anti-Greenwash Charter.

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

Truth in the Age of AI: Fighting Climate Misinformation with Conscious Advertising

Episode 46 | 28.10.2024

Truth in the Age of AI: Fighting Climate Misinformation with Conscious Advertising

In this episode, Harriet Kingaby, co-founder of the Conscious Advertising Network, delves into the ethical challenges AI brings to climate communication. She explores how AI-driven tools can fuel climate misinformation and the pivotal role advertisers play in fostering responsible narratives. Harriet shares insights on reaching “persuadable” audiences and offers practical strategies for brands to promote transparency and truth in today’s digital landscape.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

In an era where AI has the potential to drive social change or exacerbate misinformation, the advertising industry finds itself at a pivotal juncture. Harriet Kingaby, co-founder of the Conscious Advertising Network (CAN), is at the forefront of advocating for ethical advertising that can reshape climate communication. Harriet’s journey, which began with a fascination for the environment, has evolved into a career dedicated to responsible messaging within the digital age. Her work with CAN highlights the critical role advertisers play in an age where AI can both spread and prevent climate misinformation.

During a recent podcast discussion, Harriet shared insights on how CAN is addressing the ethical complexities of climate communication, especially as AI technologies continue to disrupt the media landscape. She touched on the ethical concerns posed by AI, the need for responsible storytelling, and how CAN is helping advertisers use their influence to foster truthful and impactful climate discourse. Harriet’s perspective is grounded in the reality that AI, while transformative, has the potential to destabilise the very platforms it seeks to enhance if not used responsibly.

 

AI’s Double-Edged Sword: Democratising Misinformation

AI technologies like ChatGPT, Bard, and other generative models have revolutionised the ability to create realistic, human-sounding content at unprecedented scale and speed. However, this accessibility has significant drawbacks, particularly when it comes to spreading misinformation. Harriet shared that CAN recognises how AI can “democratise the production of mis- and disinformation,” enabling malicious actors to generate misleading narratives quickly and effectively. “It makes it easy to create and distribute misinformation across platforms,” she noted, underscoring the potential for AI to amplify climate misinformation in ways that traditional media never could.

Climate misinformation remains a pressing issue in AI-generated content, as such tools are often trained on unregulated data sources that may include biased or false information. AI systems are adept at producing content that emotionally resonates with audiences, which makes them especially dangerous when used to manipulate opinions. “Misinformation is engaging content,” Harriet explained.

“It plays on our emotions and fuels viral spreads, which means that harmful climate messages can circulate widely before anyone has a chance to counter them”.

 

Reaching the “Persuadables”: The Power of Relatable Climate Narratives

Harriet believes that sustainable brands and the climate movement should be engaging the “persuadables”—the middle-ground audience who may not be fully aligned with environmental activism or denialism but are open to climate-friendly messaging. She knows how effective this approach can be from her work at Media Bounty and ACT Climate Labs.

“Businesses often overlook persuadables, focusing on preaching to their supporters or responding to detractors, but they miss the chance to reach people who can be swayed by accessible, relatable information”.

Harriet advocates for communication that is straightforward and ties into familiar values, such as family, community, and financial security. Instead of scientific jargon or confrontational tactics, encouraging a narrative that makes climate action personally relevant. For instance, Harriet suggests highlighting the economic benefits of renewable energy rather than framing it solely as a climate issue. “We can talk about wind turbines as a boon for local economies, like the new shipbuilding for our area,” she said, offering a model for how organisations can connect climate solutions to everyday concerns.

Harriet’s approach is focused on crafting messages that resonate with individuals’ lived experiences, especially when communicating complex issues like climate change. This targeted messaging, Harriet believes, can be more effective in bridging gaps in climate awareness, especially in a media landscape dominated by fragmented perspectives.

 

CAN’s Mission: Building an Ethical Framework for Advertising

CAN, which Harriet co-founded, brings together over 180 organisations in a mission to break the economic ties between advertising and harmful content. Their goal is straightforward yet impactful: prevent advertising dollars from funding misinformation, hate speech, or low-quality content. As Harriet puts it, CAN is focused on “promoting advertising as a cultural force for good” and empowering advertisers to make choices that support responsible media .

CAN’s initiatives guide brands to consider the ethical implications of their advertising placements, from avoiding platforms known for misinformation to supporting high-quality journalism. “Brands have the power to decide where their ads appear, and with that comes the responsibility to avoid funding harmful content,” Harriet emphasised. This conscious approach not only protects brands from reputational harm but also helps shift the media landscape towards a more truthful and diverse narrative environment .

One of CAN’s focus areas includes assisting brands in creating adverts that positively represent communities, reflect sustainability values, and counter climate misinformation. Harriet highlighted how advertising has the ability to influence public narratives significantly:

“Businesses can shape cultural conversations through their media placements, and by doing so responsibly, they can help combat misinformation and champion integrity in climate communication” .

 

AI and Ethical Communication: Balancing Optimism with Caution

Harriet maintains a cautiously optimistic view on AI’s potential in climate communication, provided it is used within an ethical framework. While she acknowledges AI’s capacity to optimise energy systems, aid in climate research, and revolutionise industries, she is acutely aware of its risks, especially in advertising. “The unregulated growth of ad tech has already shown us what can go wrong,” Harriet said.

“If we don’t apply lessons from ad tech to AI, we could find ourselves facing similar, if not worse, challenges” .

One of Harriet’s primary concerns is the rapid pace of AI development, which makes it difficult for regulatory frameworks to keep up. She stresses the importance of policymakers and the public being able to understand the technologies in order to make informed decisions. “We need translators—people who can break down complex AI concepts for policymakers and the public, helping them understand both the risks and opportunities,” Harriet shared, stressing that understanding AI is essential to its responsible use .

 

Practical Advice for Businesses Navigating AI’s Ethical Landscape

For businesses exploring how to navigate AI’s ethical challenges, Harriet provides concrete guidance: start with core values. By grounding their AI strategies in brand values, companies can ensure they make decisions that align with their commitment to responsible communication. “Brand values should define how you show up in society. They can help set the ethical standards for how you use AI, where you place ads, and the content you support,” Harriet advised .

She also recommends that companies work with experts to fully understand AI’s capabilities and limitations. CAN’s manifestos include advice for integrating ethical practices in both creative processes and media planning, ensuring brands can make informed choices when employing AI tools. Harriet’s advice is straightforward: “Don’t be afraid to ask questions. If your AI vendor can’t explain their technology in plain terms, that’s a red flag” .

Additionally, Harriet encourages companies to think beyond compliance, urging them to see AI not just as a tool but as a transformative force with potential for societal impact. By embedding ethical checks into procurement processes and risk management plans, brands can safeguard against unintentional harm while remaining competitive in a rapidly advancing technological landscape.

 

A Vision for the Future: Conscious Choices and Collective Action

At the heart of Harriet’s work is the belief that businesses can use their influence to promote positive change. Conscious advertising is not just about avoiding harmful content; it’s also about actively supporting narratives that advance societal good. Harriet envisions a future where advertising budgets are used to support media integrity, where brands take ownership of their role in public discourse.

“Businesses have massive influence and budgets; let’s use that power for good,”

she urges .

As AI continues to evolve, Harriet advocates for a collaborative approach that includes businesses, policymakers, and the public. She hopes CAN’s work will inspire brands to commit to ethical advertising practices that align with the evolving media landscape. Her message is clear: “AI’s potential is immense, but so are its risks. We must ask ourselves what kind of world we want to create with these technologies and take action to ensure they help us get there” .

Through CAN’s pioneering initiatives, Harriet is laying the groundwork for a responsible, transparent, and impactful advertising sector. By helping brands understand their influence and encouraging them to embrace ethical choices, Harriet is fostering a media ecosystem that prioritises truth and integrity—a necessity in the age of AI-driven communication.

As she concluded in the podcast, “It’s about taking a breath, being conscious of the choices we make, and recognising the responsibility that comes with influence. Together, we can reshape the narrative, one ethical decision at a time”

 

For a Truly Sustainable Future


👉 Become a signatory of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, publish your Green Claims Policy, and be recognised for your commitment to responsible sustainability communications.

Want to be a guest on our show?

Contact Us.

The Responsible Edge Podcast
Queensgate House
48 Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR

Recognition.

Subscribe Now.

Subscribe below to receive a monthly email featuring all new episodes of The Responsible Edge Podcast and updates from The Anti-Greenwash Charter.

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

Unlocking Social Value: Bridging Sustainability and Equity

Episode 45 | 11.10.2024

Unlocking Social Value: Bridging Sustainability and Equity

In this episode, sustainability expert Claudia Dommett-Nöhren, currently the Group Head of ESG at nGAGE Talent, shares insights on integrating social equity into the green economy. She discusses practical strategies for embedding sustainability into business operations, closing the green skills gap, and fostering a just transition.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

As the world grapples with the twin challenges of climate change and social inequality, the call for a more integrated approach to sustainability has never been louder. For leaders like Claudia Dommett-Nöhren, currently Head of ESG at nGAGE Talent, the focus isn’t just on reducing carbon footprints, but also on driving social value and equity across industries. With over 15 years of experience in sustainability, Claudia has played a key role in shaping sustainability strategies that not only address ecological concerns but also ensure that social justice is part of the equation.

During a recent episode of the podcast, Claudia shared her insights on navigating the evolving landscape of sustainability, highlighting the need to bridge the gap between environmental goals and social equity. Throughout the conversation, she delved into her career journey, the lessons she’s learned, and the ways in which businesses can embed sustainability into their core operations.

 

From Animal Rights to Holistic Sustainability

Claudia’s passion for sustainability began at an early age, initially focused on animal rights and later expanding to encompass broader environmental and social issues. “It started at a very young age… getting really into animal rights in the cosmetics industry as someone in primary school,” she explained. This passion later evolved into a more comprehensive interest in environmentalism, leading her to pursue studies in environmental management and policy.

Her career began within the rail industry, where she gained experience in environmental management before moving into more holistic roles in sustainability. She quickly realised that to make a lasting impact, it was crucial to integrate social considerations alongside environmental efforts. Reflecting on this transition, she stated,

“We have this term sustainability… but quite a lot of people, including myself at times, tend to look at environment, social, and economic factors separately rather than integrating them effectively.”

 

Embedding Sustainability into Business Operations

A key theme throughout Claudia’s career has been the importance of embedding sustainability into business processes rather than treating it as a standalone initiative. According to her, sustainability efforts should be woven into the fabric of everyday business operations to ensure they become part of the company’s culture. “You need to embed sustainability into existing business processes… If you come in with a completely new, shiny strategy, it can overwhelm people and face resistance,” she said.

Claudia’s approach often involves linking sustainability initiatives to existing business objectives, which can help companies achieve incremental improvements that ultimately drive significant change. She pointed out that integrating sustainable practices into areas such as procurement, HR and finance can gradually transform a company’s operational model, making it more resilient and efficient.

 

The Green Skills Gap and Just Transition

One of the pressing challenges that Claudia highlighted during the conversation is the growing green skills gap. As industries pivot towards more sustainable practices, the demand for professionals with expertise in green jobs and sustainability is increasing. However, there is a noticeable disconnect between the skills employers are looking for and the qualifications of many job seekers.

“There’s a skills gap that we need to bridge… I see businesses struggling to find the right candidates for sustainability roles, while there are also many people who want to enter the field but can’t land a job,” Claudia observed. To address this, she advocates for a more inclusive approach to hiring and upskilling. This includes creating opportunities for underrepresented groups to enter the sustainability sector and providing training to help current and new employees gain the necessary skills to transition into green roles.

Claudia also emphasised the need for a “just transition,” ensuring that the shift towards a low-carbon economy does not leave anyone behind. She stated, “We can’t have a just transition without being inclusive… Different people bring different strengths, and by including everyone, we can spark new ideas and solutions.” By addressing social equity alongside environmental goals, businesses can foster a more balanced and sustainable future.

 

Overcoming Resistance and Encouraging Innovation

Throughout the discussion, Claudia acknowledged that resistance to change is one of the biggest obstacles when it comes to implementing sustainability initiatives. She highlighted that some business leaders are wary of sustainability efforts disrupting day-to-day operations, and this can hinder progress.

“There’s a fear of sustainability initiatives disrupting day to day business operations,”

she said. To overcome this, Claudia recommends starting with small changes and demonstrating their benefits before scaling up efforts.

Moreover, Claudia believes that fostering a culture of innovation and embracing failure are critical for driving sustainability forward. “We need more courage to fail,” she explained. “Innovation is essential, and businesses must be willing to trial new ideas, even if they don’t always succeed.” This mindset can help companies explore new avenues for reducing their environmental impact and improving social outcomes.

 

Integrating Social Value with Environmental Goals

A significant part of Claudia’s work has involved integrating social value into sustainability strategies. For instance, during her time in the rail industry, she developed social value strategies & frameworks that considered issues such as modern slavery risks, community engagement, inclusivity as well as maximising the wider social impact of rail. She reflected, “The rail industry, being a social good, has a duty to maximise its benefits to society.”

Claudia’s approach to social value extends beyond compliance and reporting. She views it as a crucial element of sustainable business practice that can drive meaningful change when implemented thoughtfully. For businesses to genuinely integrate social value, they need to move beyond tick-box exercises and embrace strategies that consider the long-term social and environmental implications of their actions.

 

The Role of Compliance in Sustainability Efforts

During the conversation, Claudia acknowledged the growing role of compliance and reporting in sustainability. While she recognises its necessity, she expressed concern that an excessive focus on compliance can detract from the time and resources available for driving actual change.

“I spend a significant amount of time on reporting… which means less time dedicated to innovative projects,”

she noted.

Claudia argues that while compliance frameworks are essential for ensuring accountability, they should not overshadow the need for action. She suggests that companies balance compliance with proactive measures that address both environmental risks and social considerations, thereby creating a more comprehensive sustainability strategy.

 

Looking Ahead: The Future of Sustainable Business

Reflecting on the state of sustainability in business today, Claudia expressed a mix of optimism and urgency. She acknowledged that there has been significant progress in raising awareness and integrating sustainability into corporate agendas, but believes that the pace of change is still too slow. “We have many of the tools we need… but we’re not implementing them fast enough,” she remarked.

Claudia’s vision for the future involves businesses recognising that sustainability is not just an add-on or a compliance requirement, but a fundamental aspect of long-term success. “Companies need to wake up to the fact that preserving environmental resources is essential for their survival… You can’t operate on a dead planet,” she asserted. Her call to action is for businesses to embed sustainability into their DNA and view it as a driver of innovation and resilience.

 

Conclusion

Claudia’s insights serve as a powerful reminder that the journey towards a sustainable future requires a holistic approach that integrates environmental goals with social equity. By embedding sustainability into business operations, addressing the green skills gap, and fostering a culture of innovation, companies can drive meaningful change and contribute to a just transition. As Claudia puts it, “Sustainability makes good business sense… It’s about creating efficient practices that ensure long-term viability.”

 

For a Truly Sustainable Future


👉 Become a signatory of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, publish your Green Claims Policy, and be recognised for your commitment to responsible sustainability communications.

Want to be a guest on our show?

Contact Us.

The Responsible Edge Podcast
Queensgate House
48 Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR

Recognition.

Subscribe Now.

Subscribe below to receive a monthly email featuring all new episodes of The Responsible Edge Podcast and updates from The Anti-Greenwash Charter.

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

How Brands Can Avoid Social Washing: PR’s Role in Driving Authentic Impact

Episode 44 | 22.10.2024

How Brands Can Avoid Social Washing: PR’s Role in Driving Authentic Impact

In this episode, PR and media specialist Katie McIlvenny shares her insights on the role of PR in helping brands navigate social responsibility. Drawing on her experience working with creative agencies, Katie discusses the pitfalls of “social washing” and how brands can authentically support social causes. She emphasises the importance of radical transparency and offers strategies for PR professionals to guide clients in aligning their messaging with meaningful impact.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

In an era where businesses are expected to stand for more than just profit, brands face increasing pressure to align themselves with social causes and demonstrate genuine social responsibility. However, as Katie McIlvenny, a PR and media specialist, explains, this expectation brings its own set of challenges. Drawing on her extensive experience working with creative agencies and third-sector organisations, Katie discusses the fine line between authentic social impact and the pitfalls of “social washing” — a term used to describe brands that superficially associate with social issues for the sake of public image.

Katie’s journey into PR is rooted in her personal experiences and her passion for social causes. Growing up in a politically engaged family, she was exposed to the significance of social issues from an early age. This sense of activism was further fuelled by her own health struggles in her mid-twenties, when she faced a challenging ordeal due to misdiagnosed health problems. Reflecting on this experience during the podcast, Katie shared, “That was one of my earliest points where I got really passionate about how women are mistreated in the medical system and how understaffed the NHS was.” These experiences laid the groundwork for her career in communications, where she has focused on advocating for meaningful change and amplifying underrepresented voices.

 

The Rise of “Social Washing”

Katie highlights “social washing” as a prevalent issue in modern marketing. Similar to greenwashing, where brands exaggerate or misrepresent their environmental efforts, social washing occurs when companies use social causes to appear ethical or socially conscious without taking substantial action.

“It’s essentially jumping on trending social issues, having an opinion on it, or taking a tokenistic stance to drive sales,”

she explains.

Katie’s critique is not limited to small, obscure companies; even major brands are guilty of social washing. She recalled a memorable example involving the Kellogg’s CEO, who suggested that people struggling with the cost of living should eat cereal for dinner. “It was just so tone-deaf,” she remarked, pointing out how the statement came across as exploitative rather than empathetic. In her view, such instances demonstrate a lack of understanding about the real issues affecting consumers and highlight the need for more thoughtful, informed communications strategies.

 

The Role of PR in Authentic Advocacy

For Katie, the solution to social washing lies in radical transparency.

“If brands were to communicate openly, acknowledging that their support for social causes also benefits their business, it would be so much more refreshing,”

she says. This approach involves being upfront about motivations and outcomes, rather than masking them behind superficial campaigns. Katie believes that brands should not shy away from admitting that their involvement in social causes also serves their commercial interests. Instead, they should be transparent about how these initiatives align with their business strategies and benefit all stakeholders.

She suggests that creative agencies and PR consultants can play a pivotal role in guiding brands toward more authentic advocacy. By conducting thorough research and understanding the social issues that matter most to a brand’s audience, agencies can help companies align their messaging with genuine impact. “It’s about adding an extra layer of R&D or research to your offering as a brand consultancy,” she advises. Katie encourages agencies to employ specialists from diverse backgrounds, such as sociology or political science, who can offer valuable insights into social trends and help brands avoid making tone-deaf statements.

 

When to Speak Up – And When to Stay Silent

One of the key themes Katie emphasised is the importance of knowing when to engage with social issues.

“Brands can’t afford to remain silent on certain topics… especially in an era where silence is itself a statement.”

However, she also cautions against brands speaking on issues that are irrelevant or inconsistent with their core values. For example, it would be inappropriate for a company with no environmental expertise to suddenly start commenting on climate change without a well-thought-out strategy.

Katie suggests that brands must be selective about the causes they choose to support and ensure that these align with their values and expertise. “You don’t have to have an opinion on everything,” she says. “But you do need to ensure that when you speak up, it’s coming from an informed and authentic place.” The role of PR professionals, then, is to advise clients on navigating these complex issues and to help them understand the risks and benefits of taking a public stance.

 

The Commercial Benefits of Authenticity

Despite the challenges, Katie firmly believes that brands can achieve both social good and business success. She points to companies like Patagonia as examples of businesses that have managed to balance social responsibility with commercial objectives. Patagonia’s “buy less of our stuff” campaign, which encouraged consumers to be more mindful about their purchases, is a case in point. While the message was counterintuitive from a traditional marketing perspective, it resonated with consumers because it aligned with the company’s long-standing commitment to environmental sustainability.

Katie explains that when brands are transparent about their motives and engage in social causes with integrity, they can foster a virtuous cycle. “If a company supports a social initiative and is open about the business benefits, they create a circular effect,” she says. “This enables the company to grow, reinvest in social causes, and further support the communities they care about.” In her view, radical transparency not only builds consumer trust but also strengthens a brand’s reputation, leading to long-term financial success.

 

Learning from Mistakes

During the conversation, Katie addressed the consequences of getting it wrong. She explained that the damage caused by social washing extends beyond immediate reputational harm; it can lead to financial losses, regulatory scrutiny, and a loss of consumer trust.

“If you speak on a topic that’s completely unrelated to what you stand for as a brand, you’re going to lose trust,”

she warns. Katie also highlighted that regulations are beginning to catch up, with the European Union drafting legislation to address social washing in much the same way as greenwashing.

The key to avoiding these pitfalls, according to Katie, lies in preparation and research. She encourages brands to invest in understanding the social issues that resonate with their audience and to base their communications strategies on solid data. “It might take months, even years of research to understand the impact of a social cause on your consumer base, but it’s worth it,” she asserts.

 

The Way Forward: A Call for Radical Transparency

Katie concludes by calling for a shift towards radical transparency in the commercial world. She argues that if brands were more open about the benefits they receive from supporting social causes, it would not only be refreshing but would also foster a more authentic relationship with consumers. “I’d be more likely to engage with a brand that’s honest about their motivations,” she says. Katie believes that PR professionals should push for a cultural shift within organisations, encouraging brands to embrace vulnerability and acknowledge the commercial benefits of their social initiatives.

For Katie, the future of PR lies in guiding brands to be genuine advocates for social change, rather than mere opportunists.

“It’s about being honest, being prepared, and being willing to invest in understanding what really matters to your audience,”

she summarises. By doing so, brands can avoid the trap of social washing and instead create meaningful social impact while driving sustainable business growth.

In a world where staying silent is no longer an option, Katie’s insights remind us that the most successful brands will be those that communicate with authenticity, act with integrity, and embrace the power of radical transparency.

 

For a Truly Sustainable Future


👉 Become a signatory of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, publish your Green Claims Policy, and be recognised for your commitment to responsible sustainability communications.

Want to be a guest on our show?

Contact Us.

The Responsible Edge Podcast
Queensgate House
48 Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR

Recognition.

Subscribe Now.

Subscribe below to receive a monthly email featuring all new episodes of The Responsible Edge Podcast and updates from The Anti-Greenwash Charter.

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

Driving Sustainability Through Open Source Education

Episode 43 | 17.10.2024

Driving Sustainability Through Open Source Education

In this episode, Chris Brookman, founder of Back to Earth and the open-source education platform Fibres Academy, explores how open-source education can support sustainable practices in the construction industry. He discusses his experience working with natural building materials and highlights the importance of sharing knowledge to drive corporate responsibility and reduce the environmental impact of construction.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Sustainability has become a key focus across industries, and the construction sector is no exception. As the world grapples with the effects of climate change, businesses must reconsider their environmental impact. This is where corporate responsibility becomes crucial, particularly in industries like construction that have historically contributed heavily to environmental degradation. In a recent episode of the podcast, Chris Brookman, founder of Back to Earth, shared his thoughts on how open-source education can drive sustainable construction practices and why sharing knowledge is essential to fostering change.

Chris, who has been working with sustainable building materials for over 28 years, provides insights into his journey and the challenges and opportunities in promoting sustainability within the construction sector. His experience demonstrates that sustainability goes beyond using eco-friendly products—it’s about creating a culture of openness, collaboration, and education to support environmentally responsible practices.

 

From Chemistry to Sustainable Construction

Chris’s path into the construction industry was anything but conventional. Having studied chemistry at university, his career began with an unexpected project—rebuilding his father’s cob barn, a structure made from a traditional building material composed of earth, clay, straw, and water. What started as a summer job turned into a lifelong passion for natural building materials.

“I mean, I’ve always had an interest in the environment, even as a kid,” Chris explains. “But finishing university, I did a fairly tangential step and went from a chemistry degree straight into cob building…and absolutely loved it.”

This hands-on experience not only ignited his love for traditional construction methods but also led him to explore the potential of modern sustainable building materials. Chris’s chemistry background provided a unique perspective, allowing him to understand the properties of these materials in greater depth. “That got me into building,” he says, “and I kind of worked through it and picked up all the information that everyone else was talking about.”

 

The Role of Natural Materials in Sustainable Construction

As founder of Back to Earth, Chris has spent decades promoting the use of natural building materials sourced from across Europe. His company focuses on providing low-impact, high-performance materials that are not only better for the environment but also offer superior long-term performance. Over time, Back to Earth has become known for its expertise in sustainable construction, with Chris leading the way in educating builders, architects, and homeowners about the benefits of natural materials.

“We guide our clients through the process of understanding, specifying, and sourcing low-impact, high-performance materials for their sustainable building projects,”

Chris explains in the podcast. This emphasis on education is crucial because many builders and architects are unfamiliar with these materials, having relied for so long on conventional products.

One of the most significant challenges Chris highlights is the disconnect between traditional and sustainable building practices. “You know, I built my skills and experience of construction generally, but towards the end of that period, I began to want to use my degree a bit more… delving into the nitty-gritty of building materials, finding out how they really work, not how people think they work,” he says. His curiosity and commitment to better understanding the materials have helped Back to Earth offer innovative solutions that challenge conventional approaches to construction.

 

Open-Source Education: Breaking Down Barriers

A key theme throughout the conversation is the importance of open-source education in the construction industry. Chris believes that making information widely available is essential for encouraging the use of sustainable materials and practices. He draws parallels between the construction sector and the open-source movement in software, where shared knowledge fosters innovation and collaboration.

“I encourage anyone to make information freely available because it opens up the whole market to everybody,”

Chris says. He explains how manufacturers in the building industry are often reluctant to share information, fearing that doing so will give away competitive advantages. However, Chris argues that this secrecy hinders progress and ultimately limits the industry’s ability to innovate.

“It’s a kind of win-win thing to go open-source,” he continues. “Having all of that information aggregated across the whole market grows the market, and your share of that market will only become bigger, the same as everyone else’s.”

At Back to Earth, Chris has been practising this philosophy for years, making detailed blogs and guides available to help others understand the complexities of sustainable construction. More recently, he launched Fibres Academy, an open-source platform designed to educate people about the benefits and uses of wood-fibre insulation. The platform aims to make technical knowledge accessible to a wider audience, helping builders, architects, and homeowners make informed choices.

Fibres Academy was about regurgitating as much as possible out of my mind onto a platform that other people could access,”

he explains. This project embodies Chris’s commitment to sharing knowledge freely to support a broader movement towards sustainable construction.

 

Corporate Responsibility in Action

Chris is also a firm believer in the role of corporate responsibility in driving change. He argues that businesses, particularly in the construction industry, have a responsibility to adopt sustainable practices and advocate for higher standards across the sector. For Chris, corporate responsibility goes hand in hand with open-source education—companies need to be transparent about their impact and share the knowledge and tools necessary to foster widespread change.

“The more we can show people how to use materials and how best to use them, the more we can help them achieve their goals while reducing their environmental impact,” he says. By educating their clients and sharing their expertise, Back to Earth helps people make better choices that benefit both the planet and the bottom line.

 

The Future of Sustainable Construction

Looking to the future, Chris remains optimistic. He sees a growing interest in sustainable construction, particularly among younger generations. “In the last 10 years, the interest in natural materials has grown enormously,” he says. “We no longer have to root out projects and try to encourage people to use them. People are coming to us with the idea that they want to save energy and reduce their impact on the environment.”

Chris believes that this shift in public consciousness, combined with the open-source sharing of knowledge, will help drive the construction industry towards more sustainable practices. However, he acknowledges that there is still much work to be done, particularly in overcoming resistance from older generations and larger corporations that are more focused on profit than sustainability.

“My generation has been pretty pants on it,” Chris admits. “We’ve been talking about climate change for 30 years, and yes, stuff is happening, but in the general public, it’s still all about, ‘Oh, it’s going to be too expensive.’”

He is hopeful, however, that younger generations will push for change. “You can really see in younger people the seriousness that they take it and the actual desire to do something about it.”

 

Conclusion

Chris’s insights highlight the importance of knowledge-sharing and corporate responsibility in promoting sustainability within the construction industry. By embracing open-source education and making sustainable practices more accessible, companies can drive meaningful change and help reduce the environmental impact of construction.

As the conversation with Chris demonstrates, building a sustainable future requires collaboration, transparency, and a commitment to continuous learning. Whether through platforms like Fibres Academy or through corporate advocacy, the construction industry has an opportunity to play a significant role in combating climate change. By making information freely available and encouraging responsible practices, businesses can help create a more sustainable, resilient built environment for generations to come.

 

For a Truly Sustainable Future


👉 Become a signatory of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, publish your Green Claims Policy, and be recognised for your commitment to responsible sustainability communications.

Want to be a guest on our show?

Contact Us.

The Responsible Edge Podcast
Queensgate House
48 Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR

Recognition.

Subscribe Now.

Subscribe below to receive a monthly email featuring all new episodes of The Responsible Edge Podcast and updates from The Anti-Greenwash Charter.

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

What 30 Conversations with Leading CEOs Revealed About Ethical Leadership

Episode 42 | 14.10.2024

What 30 Conversations with Leading CEOs Revealed About Ethical Leadership

In this episode, we speak with Pablo Hepworth Lloyd OBE, Chair of Twin Group and a seasoned social entrepreneur with over 20 years of experience, about what he learned from 30 conversations with leading CEOs about ethical leadership. Drawing from his extensive background in education and social impact, Pablo reflects on how leaders can navigate tough decisions, go beyond regulatory compliance, and create lasting value through principled leadership.

Listen to the full podcast episode on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

In the ever-evolving landscape of corporate governance, ethical leadership has emerged as a crucial driver of business success. It’s no longer enough for companies to adhere strictly to regulatory frameworks; today’s leaders are tasked with making decisions that align with broader societal values, ensuring that their actions contribute positively to the communities they serve. In a recent podcast, Pablo Hepworth Lloyd OBE, Chair of Twin Group and an accomplished social entrepreneur, shared his insights on ethical leadership drawn from over 30 interviews with leading CEOs. His reflections offer valuable lessons for leaders seeking to navigate the complex intersection of ethics, responsibility, and business performance.

 

From Finance to Social Impact: Pablo’s Journey

Pablo’s career is a testament to the power of aligning personal values with professional ambition. With over 20 years of experience in the education sector and a background in corporate finance, he has witnessed firsthand the consequences of placing profits over principles. Early in his career, Pablo worked for Arthur Andersen, a global accounting firm that ultimately collapsed under the weight of unethical practices. Reflecting on this period, Pablo shared,

“There was only one KPI anyone cared about—billable hours. If you were at the top of that table, you were rewarded, but if you questioned the ethics behind it, you were encouraged to look elsewhere.”

It was this discomfort that pushed Pablo to seek a different path. He left the profit-driven corporate world and transitioned into social entrepreneurship, founding and co-founding several enterprises aimed at creating social impact. His most recent venture, Visionnaires, provides mentoring and support to early-stage entrepreneurs, particularly those without traditional qualifications or social capital. Through Visionnaires, Pablo and his team have helped over 2,000 entrepreneurs launch their businesses, proving that ethical leadership can fuel both social good and economic growth.

 

The Power of Ethical Decision-Making

One of the key insights Pablo shared from his conversations with CEOs is the idea that ethical leadership goes beyond mere regulatory compliance. While regulations provide a framework for responsible business conduct, truly impactful leaders strive to do more. “Ethical leadership sets the tone for responsible practices,” Pablo explained, “and regulatory compliance is just a guidepost for ethical decisions.”

Pablo’s reflections draw on his wide-ranging discussions with CEOs across various industries. He emphasised that ethical leadership is about making tough decisions that may not always yield immediate financial rewards but can lead to sustainable success in the long term.

“It’s easy to make decisions that prioritise short-term gains, but the best leaders are those who think beyond the quarterly results and consider the broader impact of their actions,”

he said.

This long-term view was shaped by Pablo’s experience at Nationwide Building Society in the 1990s, where the CEO made the bold decision to reject privatisation despite the potential financial gains. The decision was driven by a commitment to maintaining the building society’s core mission of providing financial peace of mind to its customers. “That moment was pivotal for me,” Pablo noted. “It made me realise that leadership is about more than just profits; it’s about staying true to your values, even when the financial incentives suggest otherwise.”

 

The Challenges of Ethical Leadership

Despite the clear benefits of ethical leadership, Pablo acknowledged that it is not without its challenges. One of the recurring themes in his conversations with CEOs was the difficulty of balancing ethical considerations with the demands of running a profitable business. Many leaders feel overwhelmed by the sheer scope of responsibilities they now face, particularly in the context of global supply chains, environmental sustainability, and social responsibility.

As Pablo pointed out, “It can be overwhelming, but I see it as a fabulous opportunity. When you acquire power and authority, there’s an expectation that you’ll use it wisely. The challenge is to leverage that power to make a bigger difference, even when it’s not the easiest or most profitable route.”

One of the most compelling stories Pablo shared was from his time working with a leader whose team had been affected by the 9/11 attacks. The trauma experienced by the team led to difficult conversations about how to support staff who no longer felt safe travelling to their Manhattan office. The leader could have prioritised the company’s bottom line, insisting that employees return to work. Instead, they made the compassionate decision to offer financial and emotional support to any team member who wanted to leave the company or work remotely. “It was a huge risk to the business,” Pablo explained, “but it was the right thing to do. And in the long term, it paid off—people wanted to work for an organisation that cared about them as individuals.”

 

Ethical Leadership in a Regulated World

Pablo also discussed the symbiotic relationship between ethical leadership and regulatory compliance. Regulations, while essential, are often seen as a baseline for ethical conduct. True leaders, Pablo argued, go beyond these requirements to foster a culture of integrity that permeates every aspect of their business. “Compliance should be the foundation, but not the ceiling,” he said. “Ethical leaders understand that regulations provide the framework, but it’s up to them to build something meaningful on top of it.”

One area where this dynamic is particularly evident is in the field of environmental sustainability. Pablo noted that many CEOs he spoke to are grappling with the complexities of meeting increasingly stringent environmental regulations while also striving to reduce their companies’ overall carbon footprints. “The regulations are necessary, but they don’t always go far enough,” he said.

“The leaders who stand out are the ones who go above and beyond, not because they have to, but because they believe it’s the right thing to do.”

 

Lessons from 30 Conversations with CEOs

Throughout his discussions with CEOs, Pablo identified several recurring themes that define ethical leadership. First, ethical leaders must be clear about their personal values and how these align with the organisation’s mission. “You have to know what you stand for,” Pablo said. “If your decisions don’t reflect your core values, you’ll find it hard to lead with integrity.”

Second, Pablo highlighted the importance of long-term thinking. Leaders who prioritise short-term financial gains often miss opportunities to build trust and loyalty with their employees, customers, and other stakeholders. “It’s not about maximising profits every quarter,” Pablo explained. “It’s about creating an organisation that people believe in, one that they want to support and work for.”

Finally, Pablo stressed the need for courage in ethical leadership. Making principled decisions can be risky, especially when they conflict with immediate business interests. However, the CEOs he spoke to were unanimous in their belief that ethical decisions ultimately lead to better outcomes in the long run. “There’s always a risk,” Pablo acknowledged, “but the rewards—both in terms of business performance and personal satisfaction—are worth it.”

 

Ethical Leadership: Performance, Principle, and Power

A crucial aspect of Pablo’s insights revolves around the principles of Performance, Principle, and Power Decision-Making, which he sees as fundamental to ethical leadership. These three elements form a balanced framework for leaders who seek to make impactful decisions that align with their values. As Pablo explained during the podcast, “Performance is essential—every leader must ensure their organisation delivers results. But focusing solely on performance risks losing sight of the bigger picture.” This is where Principle comes in—making decisions grounded in ethics, rather than just financial returns. Pablo believes that principled leaders are those who consistently align their actions with core values, even when it’s difficult or unpopular.

Power Decision-Making refers to the responsibility that comes with leadership. “When you hold power, there’s an expectation that you will use it wisely,” Pablo said, highlighting that ethical leaders must be conscious of the broader impact of their decisions. This framework encourages leaders to use their power not just for profit, but to foster a culture of responsibility and trust.

The Five Pillars of Ethical Leadership

Expanding on this framework, Pablo outlined the Five Pillars of Ethical Leadership, captured through the mnemonic ETHIC. These pillars guide leaders in navigating complex moral decisions:

1. Empathy: Knowing and listening to your stakeholders, understanding their needs and concerns.

2. Traction: Turning ideas into action, making sure ethical values translate into real-world results.

3. Higher Purpose: Defining what the organisation stands for beyond profit, and focusing on its long-term mission.

4. Ingenuity: Using creativity and smart thinking to align ethical goals with business sustainability.

5. Conscience: Tapping into personal values and ensuring they align with professional actions, making decisions that reflect the leader’s true beliefs.

Pablo explained that the final pillar, Conscience, is often the most challenging for leaders. It requires them to look beyond organisational metrics and ask themselves, “What do I truly care about? And how do I align my leadership with that?” According to Pablo, this is the key to authentic leadership—being deeply connected to one’s own moral compass and using it to guide decisions.

 

The Future of Ethical Leadership

Looking ahead, Pablo is optimistic about the future of ethical leadership. He believes that as more leaders embrace the principles of transparency, fairness, and social responsibility, businesses will become more resilient and better equipped to tackle the challenges of the modern world. “We’re moving in the right direction,” he said.

“The more leaders focus on ethical decision-making, the more we’ll see businesses thrive not just financially, but socially as well.”

Pablo’s own career stands as a powerful example of what can be achieved when leaders prioritise ethics over expediency. Through his work with Twin Group and Visionnaires, he continues to push for a more inclusive, socially responsible approach to leadership—one that empowers individuals and benefits society as a whole.

 

Conclusion

Pablo’s reflections on ethical leadership, drawn from his conversations with CEOs and his own extensive experience, provide a compelling blueprint for modern leaders. In a world where the pressures of regulatory compliance, financial performance, and social responsibility often collide, Pablo’s insights offer a way forward. Ethical leadership is not just about following the rules; it’s about setting a standard that others can aspire to, making decisions that reflect core values, and creating a lasting positive impact on society.

 

For a Truly Sustainable Future


👉 Become a signatory of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, publish your Green Claims Policy, and be recognised for your commitment to responsible sustainability communications.

Want to be a guest on our show?

Contact Us.

The Responsible Edge Podcast
Queensgate House
48 Queen Street
Exeter
Devon
EX4 3SR

Recognition.

Subscribe Now.

Subscribe below to receive a monthly email featuring all new episodes of The Responsible Edge Podcast and updates from The Anti-Greenwash Charter.

  • This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast

© 2025. The Responsible Edge Podcast