✈️ SAF: Big Potential, Bigger Obstacles

At the heart of Sophia’s message is a paradox: the demand for SAF is growing (helped by new UK and EU mandates), but supply—and crucially, domestic production capacity—lags far behind. Without targeted incentives and better policy alignment, she warns, we risk missing the industrial and environmental opportunity of the decade.

“We’ve made some really good headway with creating demand… But there’s quite a few hurdles that we need to overcome in that space to really bring quite large investments at scale to the UK and Europe.”

One of LanzaJet’s solutions? Alcohol-to-jet (AtJ) technology, converting waste-based ethanol into jet fuel—offering a scalable, lower-carbon alternative that’s already been demonstrated in the US and is now being prepared for rollout in the UK (with a flagship facility in Teesside).

 

🔑 Sophia’s 3 Keys to Unlocking SAF Growth

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1. Mandates with More Muscle

• The UK has introduced a SAF mandate: 2% of jet fuel must be sustainable by 2025, rising to ~20% by 2040.

• Sounds solid, but Sophia argues it’s not ambitious enough:

  “I’d give it somewhere between a seven and eight out of ten.”

Compared to the EU’s more aggressive trajectory, the UK risks being seen as a laggard—particularly as aviation’s share of emissions is set to soar to 27% by 2040, even if other sectors decarbonise.

2. Incentives that De-Risk First Movers

Sophia points out the financial risk of investing in first-of-a-kind SAF facilities is still too high for many players.

• SAF plants aren’t cheap and traditional investors aren’t keen on the unknown.
• She calls for:
  • Policy initiatives to support SAF commercialisation, such as ETS Allowances
  • Use of the National Wealth Fund to back domestic SAF production
  • Continued grant funding targeted at scalable technologies
  • Greater simplicity and clarity in policy and permitting

“You’ve got great technology, great feedstock, growing demand—but finance sits behind all of it.”

3. A Clear, Coherent Policy Landscape

Current regulation is, in a word, chaotic.

• SAF definitions and frameworks vary across the EU

• Permitting processes are slow, contradictory, and difficult to navigate

“None of it is intentionally complex—but it is, by default, incredibly complicated.”

Sophia calls for simplification, greater alignment across UK and EU policy, and a renewed industrial strategy that puts sustainability front and centre.

 

🚨 Why the Clock’s Ticking

Sophia offers a stark but empowering message: SAF is coming, but if the UK and Europe don’t move faster, they’ll lose out to other global players—especially the US, where IRA tax credits and aggressive funding are helping fuel SAF’s rise.

“If we want to attract all these net zero industries that will provide jobs and growth, we have to act now.”

 

💡 Sophia’s Magic Wand Moment

If given the power to change one thing about the commercial world?

“I’d love to see us just go all-in on SAF.”

That means:

• Ambitious, long-term mandates

• Financial tools to de-risk early investments

• A joined-up industrial vision that frames SAF not as a niche innovation, but as central to the UK and Europe’s net zero future.

 

Final Thoughts 🧭

Sophia’s insight cuts through political noise and technical jargon with clarity and urgency. Her call to action? Invest. Simplify. Lead.

Because this isn’t just about carbon. It’s about jobs, resilience, global competitiveness—and building a future-ready economy.

“Without sustainability, you have no business model.”

Well said.

AI’s Role in Simplifying ESG Complexity

As the leader of Seneca ESG, a company providing AI-powered sustainability software, Jonathan highlighted the rising complexity of ESG reporting. He noted;

“A lot of these ESG-related tasks are repetitive in nature… Sustainability teams are often just two or three people, and they don’t have the capacity to manage the volume of inquiries coming their way.”

Generative AI, according to Jonathan, has the potential to automate these repetitive processes, freeing up resources and enabling teams to focus on strategic innovation.

Seneca ESG’s software already leverages AI for tasks like emission tracking and reporting compliance. “We’ve identified thousands of hours wasted on manual data management,” he explained. “Our tools reduce that burden, enabling organisations to focus on continuous improvement, not just compliance.”

The Greenwashing Dilemma

However, Jonathan also expressed caution about the risks of generative AI. He warned;

“If not used properly, generative AI could exacerbate greenwashing rather than fix it. For companies unsure of how to characterise their sustainability practices, relying on AI to ‘write something for them’ could lead to misleading claims.”

This challenge, he argued, underscores the need for robust guardrails. Seneca ESG’s AI solutions, for instance, incorporate user feedback to refine how they assist organisations, ensuring that outputs remain accurate and responsible.

Jonathan’s stance aligned closely with the values of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, whose signatories must adhere to strict standards around the use of generative AI in content production.

Balancing Compliance with Creativity

Jonathan emphasised that the true potential of generative AI lies in its ability to shift the balance within sustainability teams. “With the compliance and reporting side becoming so large, sustainability teams have less time to focus on innovation and problem-solving,” he said.

“Generative AI, when used responsibly, can free up time for these creative pursuits.”

This dual focus on compliance and creativity is central to Seneca ESG’s mission. The company doesn’t just help organisations meet regulatory requirements but also identifies opportunities for long-term improvement. “It’s not just about ticking boxes—it’s about becoming better,” Jonathan stressed.

A Vision for the Future

When asked about the broader implications of AI for corporate behaviour, Jonathan shared a visionary perspective. “If I had a magic wand,” he mused;

“I’d create a direct connection between corporate behaviour and societal happiness. Sustainability, security, and freedom are key components of this happiness.”

Jonathan’s ambition for Seneca ESG mirrors this vision. By providing tools that enable both compliance and innovation, he aims to help organisations not only meet today’s challenges but also position themselves as leaders in building a sustainable future.

The Takeaway

Jonathan’s insights remind us that while generative AI offers tremendous potential for ESG, its implementation must be approached with caution and responsibility. For organisations looking to harness its power, the focus must remain on fostering transparency, enhancing sustainability practices, and avoiding the pitfalls of greenwashing. As Jonathan concluded;

“The ultimate goal is not just compliance—it’s continuous improvement. That’s where the real impact lies.”

His approach offers a roadmap for businesses seeking to navigate the evolving intersection of technology and sustainability.

Sustainability has become a key focus across industries, and the construction sector is no exception. As the world grapples with the effects of climate change, businesses must reconsider their environmental impact. This is where corporate responsibility becomes crucial, particularly in industries like construction that have historically contributed heavily to environmental degradation. In a recent episode of the podcast, Chris Brookman, founder of Back to Earth, shared his thoughts on how open-source education can drive sustainable construction practices and why sharing knowledge is essential to fostering change.

Chris, who has been working with sustainable building materials for over 28 years, provides insights into his journey and the challenges and opportunities in promoting sustainability within the construction sector. His experience demonstrates that sustainability goes beyond using eco-friendly products—it’s about creating a culture of openness, collaboration, and education to support environmentally responsible practices.

 

From Chemistry to Sustainable Construction

Chris’s path into the construction industry was anything but conventional. Having studied chemistry at university, his career began with an unexpected project—rebuilding his father’s cob barn, a structure made from a traditional building material composed of earth, clay, straw, and water. What started as a summer job turned into a lifelong passion for natural building materials.

“I mean, I’ve always had an interest in the environment, even as a kid,” Chris explains. “But finishing university, I did a fairly tangential step and went from a chemistry degree straight into cob building…and absolutely loved it.”

This hands-on experience not only ignited his love for traditional construction methods but also led him to explore the potential of modern sustainable building materials. Chris’s chemistry background provided a unique perspective, allowing him to understand the properties of these materials in greater depth. “That got me into building,” he says, “and I kind of worked through it and picked up all the information that everyone else was talking about.”

 

The Role of Natural Materials in Sustainable Construction

As founder of Back to Earth, Chris has spent decades promoting the use of natural building materials sourced from across Europe. His company focuses on providing low-impact, high-performance materials that are not only better for the environment but also offer superior long-term performance. Over time, Back to Earth has become known for its expertise in sustainable construction, with Chris leading the way in educating builders, architects, and homeowners about the benefits of natural materials.

“We guide our clients through the process of understanding, specifying, and sourcing low-impact, high-performance materials for their sustainable building projects,”

Chris explains in the podcast. This emphasis on education is crucial because many builders and architects are unfamiliar with these materials, having relied for so long on conventional products.

One of the most significant challenges Chris highlights is the disconnect between traditional and sustainable building practices. “You know, I built my skills and experience of construction generally, but towards the end of that period, I began to want to use my degree a bit more… delving into the nitty-gritty of building materials, finding out how they really work, not how people think they work,” he says. His curiosity and commitment to better understanding the materials have helped Back to Earth offer innovative solutions that challenge conventional approaches to construction.

 

Open-Source Education: Breaking Down Barriers

A key theme throughout the conversation is the importance of open-source education in the construction industry. Chris believes that making information widely available is essential for encouraging the use of sustainable materials and practices. He draws parallels between the construction sector and the open-source movement in software, where shared knowledge fosters innovation and collaboration.

“I encourage anyone to make information freely available because it opens up the whole market to everybody,”

Chris says. He explains how manufacturers in the building industry are often reluctant to share information, fearing that doing so will give away competitive advantages. However, Chris argues that this secrecy hinders progress and ultimately limits the industry’s ability to innovate.

“It’s a kind of win-win thing to go open-source,” he continues. “Having all of that information aggregated across the whole market grows the market, and your share of that market will only become bigger, the same as everyone else’s.”

At Back to Earth, Chris has been practising this philosophy for years, making detailed blogs and guides available to help others understand the complexities of sustainable construction. More recently, he launched Fibres Academy, an open-source platform designed to educate people about the benefits and uses of wood-fibre insulation. The platform aims to make technical knowledge accessible to a wider audience, helping builders, architects, and homeowners make informed choices.

“Fibres Academy was about regurgitating as much as possible out of my mind onto a platform that other people could access,”

he explains. This project embodies Chris’s commitment to sharing knowledge freely to support a broader movement towards sustainable construction.

 

Corporate Responsibility in Action

Chris is also a firm believer in the role of corporate responsibility in driving change. He argues that businesses, particularly in the construction industry, have a responsibility to adopt sustainable practices and advocate for higher standards across the sector. For Chris, corporate responsibility goes hand in hand with open-source education—companies need to be transparent about their impact and share the knowledge and tools necessary to foster widespread change.

“The more we can show people how to use materials and how best to use them, the more we can help them achieve their goals while reducing their environmental impact,” he says. By educating their clients and sharing their expertise, Back to Earth helps people make better choices that benefit both the planet and the bottom line.

 

The Future of Sustainable Construction

Looking to the future, Chris remains optimistic. He sees a growing interest in sustainable construction, particularly among younger generations. “In the last 10 years, the interest in natural materials has grown enormously,” he says. “We no longer have to root out projects and try to encourage people to use them. People are coming to us with the idea that they want to save energy and reduce their impact on the environment.”

Chris believes that this shift in public consciousness, combined with the open-source sharing of knowledge, will help drive the construction industry towards more sustainable practices. However, he acknowledges that there is still much work to be done, particularly in overcoming resistance from older generations and larger corporations that are more focused on profit than sustainability.

“My generation has been pretty pants on it,” Chris admits. “We’ve been talking about climate change for 30 years, and yes, stuff is happening, but in the general public, it’s still all about, ‘Oh, it’s going to be too expensive.’”

He is hopeful, however, that younger generations will push for change. “You can really see in younger people the seriousness that they take it and the actual desire to do something about it.”

 

Conclusion

Chris’s insights highlight the importance of knowledge-sharing and corporate responsibility in promoting sustainability within the construction industry. By embracing open-source education and making sustainable practices more accessible, companies can drive meaningful change and help reduce the environmental impact of construction.

As the conversation with Chris demonstrates, building a sustainable future requires collaboration, transparency, and a commitment to continuous learning. Whether through platforms like Fibres Academy or through corporate advocacy, the construction industry has an opportunity to play a significant role in combating climate change. By making information freely available and encouraging responsible practices, businesses can help create a more sustainable, resilient built environment for generations to come.

In today’s corporate world, the focus on Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) principles has become increasingly significant, shaping strategies in industries from finance to heavy industry. But as the ESG movement grows, so does the complexity of its communication and implementation. Steve John, a seasoned ESG and Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) leader with over 20 years of experience in industries such as oil, gas, nuclear, and mining, offers a unique perspective on how to strike the perfect balance between idealism and pragmatism in the ESG space.

Currently serving as ESG Manager at newcleo, an innovative nuclear energy company, Steve has worked in various sectors where ESG isn’t always an easy fit. His experience spans the globe, with projects in diverse locations including the Kurdistan region of Iraq and the Indian Himalayas. In a recent podcast episode, Steve shared his insights into the evolving role of ESG, highlighting the importance of clear communication, practical strategies, and maintaining a moral compass in corporate sustainability.

 

From Ecology to ESG

Steve’s journey into the world of ESG began in a somewhat unexpected way. After studying ecology at university, he admits, “I wasn’t really sure what to do with my life” . His thesis focused on oil pollution in the Shetland Isles, a project he describes as a “desk-based study” that laid the groundwork for his interest in corporate responsibility.

“What companies say versus what they do has always intrigued me,”

he explains, noting how this early fascination with accountability became a central theme throughout his career .

After university, Steve joined a small environmental consultancy, producing environmental reports for clients in the financial services and water industries. It was here that his path began to take shape, as his firm transitioned from an environmental consultancy to a CSR consultancy. Reflecting on this pivotal moment, he recalls how the decision to rebrand the company as a CSR consultancy took just “30 seconds” but marked a major shift in his career .

This move into the world of CSR led Steve to work closely with sustainability analysts and socially responsible investment teams, who examined sustainability through a financial lens. This experience was formative, as he realised the power of combining environmental and social principles with corporate and financial strategies. As Steve puts it, “There was something about it that sparked my fire” .

 

Pragmatism in ESG: Simplifying Communication

One of the key themes Steve emphasises throughout the podcast is the need for pragmatism in ESG, especially when it comes to communication. ESG, as a concept, can be complex, and many companies struggle to balance the technical jargon of environmental data with the need to inspire action.

“There’s a tendency to use complicated language,”

Steve notes. He argues that while idealism is important for driving innovation and passion, clarity and simplicity are equally essential to ensure everyone in an organisation understands and embraces ESG principles .

Steve stresses that pragmatic communication is crucial for making ESG accessible, particularly in industries like oil, gas, and nuclear, where the technical aspects can easily overwhelm non-experts. “We need passionate idealists to drive the vision, but we also need practical communicators to make ESG accessible and relatable to everyone—from board members to field workers,” he explains .

This focus on clear communication is something Steve takes seriously in his current role at newcleo. As a growing company in a complex sector, newcleo faces significant challenges in aligning its nuclear energy goals with sustainability principles. However, Steve is determined to ensure that the company’s ESG message remains clear and concise. “We’re still building our culture as we grow, and ESG is going to play a big part in that culture development,” he says .

 

From Compliance to Storytelling

Another aspect of ESG that Steve highlights is the tension between compliance and impact. Many companies see ESG primarily as a compliance exercise, focused on ticking boxes and meeting regulatory requirements. However, Steve believes that this approach misses the bigger picture. “There’s always a need for compliance,” he acknowledges, but adds that

“the real challenge is in moving beyond compliance and using storytelling to engage people” .

According to Steve, storytelling plays a critical role in ESG, particularly when it comes to inspiring change within organisations. He argues that data and reporting are essential, but they must be complemented by narratives that bring the numbers to life. By framing ESG goals in a way that resonates with people on a personal level, companies can drive deeper engagement and foster a sense of purpose among employees and stakeholders.

Steve’s own career is a testament to the power of storytelling. Whether he’s working on the ground in remote locations or presenting at the boardroom level, he has always prioritised communication that connects with people. “It’s about making better choices,” he says, “whether it’s about how you travel to work or what suppliers you choose to partner with” . For Steve, this focus on everyday decisions is key to making ESG an integral part of a company’s culture, rather than just another regulatory burden.

 

Plugging Into Simplicity

During the conversation, Charlie, the host and co-founder of The Anti-Greenwash Charter, brings up the issue of greenwashing and the difficulty many companies face in making genuine, transparent claims about their sustainability efforts. As ESG becomes more embedded in corporate strategy, the risk of vague or exaggerated environmental claims increases, which can lead to confusion among stakeholders and, ultimately, mistrust.

Steve agrees with this challenge, noting that, “There’s a tendency to use complicated language,” which makes it harder for companies to convey their environmental impact clearly . He emphasises the importance of simplicity in ESG communication, and how essential it is for organisations to define their terms and avoid greenwashing.

This is where The Anti-Greenwash Charter comes in. Developed as a response to the growing concerns around misleading environmental claims, the charter offers a framework to ensure that companies provide clear, transparent, and verifiable information about their sustainability practices. As Charlie explains,

“The Charter encourages companies to define key environmental terms and avoid misleading language, ensuring that their green claims are backed up with real evidence.”

Steve fully supports this approach, seeing it as an essential tool for ensuring ESG communication is both clear and credible. “It’s about making ESG language simple and relatable,” he says. “When companies define their terms and provide third-party verification for their claims, it becomes easier for stakeholders—whether employees, customers, or regulators—to understand exactly what they’re saying and trust that the claims are genuine” .

 

ESG in Heavy Industry: A Unique Perspective

One of the most unique aspects of Steve’s career is his extensive experience in industries that are often viewed as ESG laggards, such as oil, gas, and nuclear. However, Steve sees these sectors as crucial players in the sustainability movement.

“There’s a misconception that industries like oil and gas can’t contribute to ESG goals,”

he says, “but what I’ve learned is that some of the best innovations in decarbonisation come from these sectors. It’s all about working with what exists rather than fighting against it” .

Steve’s pragmatic approach has led him to work closely with engineers and technical teams, ensuring that ESG principles are not just theoretical but are embedded in the day-to-day operations of these industries. “I’ve had more success in heavy industry than in any other sector,” he reflects, noting that the practical nature of these industries lends itself well to the kind of hands-on, results-driven approach that ESG requires .

His current work at newcleo, which focuses on developing small modular reactors and recycling nuclear fuel, is a perfect example of how heavy industry can lead the way in sustainable innovation. “We’re a young company, but our mission is clear: to innovate the nuclear industry and play a key role in climate change mitigation,” Steve explains. For him, nuclear energy represents a critical piece of the puzzle when it comes to decarbonisation, and he is excited to be at the forefront of this transformation .

 

The Moral Imperative of ESG

Beyond the technical and strategic aspects of ESG, Steve also touches on the moral dimensions of his work. “At the end of the day, it’s about doing the right thing,” he says. While ESG is often framed in terms of risk management and compliance, Steve believes that there is a deeper ethical responsibility that underpins the entire movement .

This sense of moral purpose has been a guiding force throughout Steve’s career, from his early days in environmental consultancy to his current role at newcleo. Whether he’s working on community engagement projects in Kurdistan or helping to shape the ESG strategy of a nuclear start-up, Steve is driven by a desire to make a positive impact on the world. “I want to be able to look back at my career and point to tangible examples of where I’ve made a difference,” he says .

 

Conclusion

Steve John’s insights into the evolving world of ESG offer a refreshing perspective on how to balance idealism with pragmatism. His emphasis on clear communication, practical strategies, and the power of storytelling provides valuable lessons for anyone looking to navigate the complexities of ESG in today’s business world. As he continues to lead the ESG charge at newcleo, Steve’s unique blend of experience, passion, and pragmatism is helping to shape the future of responsible investment and sustainable business practices.

For Steve, the key to ESG success lies in making better choices—whether it’s simplifying the language of sustainability, leveraging innovations in heavy industry, or maintaining a moral compass in corporate decision-making. As he puts it,

“ESG is ultimately about doing the right thing, even when it’s difficult”.

And in a world where businesses are increasingly held accountable for their environmental and social impact, that simple philosophy may be more important than ever.

In today’s business world, Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) considerations are more than just a buzzword – they have become an essential part of corporate strategy. However, the real challenge for many organisations is effectively integrating ESG principles into their core business operations. In a recent podcast, sustainability expert Julia Hoy, Associate Partner and Sustainability Communications Lead at Sefiani, and Michael Gonzalez, Head of Corporate Strategy at Clarity Global, provided compelling insights into the pivotal role that communication plays in aligning ESG with corporate strategy.

Julia and Michael’s conversation underscored the importance of using communication not merely as a tool for broadcasting ESG initiatives, but as the lubricant that “oils the machine” of integration, ensuring that these initiatives become an intrinsic part of the company’s broader business objectives. By focusing on material issues, fostering transparency, and building trust with stakeholders, they argue that companies can successfully navigate the complexities of ESG integration and avoid common pitfalls like greenwashing.

 

The Power of Purpose-Driven Communication

Reflecting on her career, Julia highlighted how early experiences shaped her passion for sustainability and communication. She recalled working with Unilever during the launch of their Sustainable Living Plan, a time when sustainability was becoming embedded in the corporate landscape. For Julia, this was a pivotal moment that solidified her belief in purpose-driven communication. “I was always drawn to companies or projects where there was purpose, where there was some kind of impact or an idea of business using their power to do something good and worthwhile,” she said .

This perspective laid the foundation for Julia’s approach to sustainability communications. She stressed that to truly integrate ESG into corporate strategy, businesses must move beyond the traditional marketing mindset of “pushing things to people they don’t really need” . Instead, they must adopt a more holistic, strategic approach, ensuring that sustainability is not just a separate initiative but a core part of the company’s DNA.

“Sustainability needs to be ingrained within the strategy. You can’t have it as an add-on because then it becomes the first thing to get cut when times get tough,”

she noted .

 

From CSR to ESG: The Evolution of Corporate Strategy

Both Julia and Michael agreed that the role of communication in sustainability has evolved significantly over the years. As Julia pointed out, what was once considered corporate social responsibility (CSR) has transformed into a more robust and integrated ESG framework. “CSR has been dead since 2010,” Julia quipped, explaining how the language and focus of sustainability have shifted. In today’s context, companies are not merely doing good for the sake of it—they are embedding sustainability into their core operations to drive long-term value .

For Michael, this shift is critical. Having worked across various sectors and regions, from Europe to the Caribbean, he emphasised that communication is now more complex and multifaceted than ever before.

“You can’t do corporate communications without considering sustainability, public affairs, policy, and regulation,”

Michael explained . He believes that the businesses that succeed are those that take a holistic approach, viewing ESG as a key driver of corporate strategy, rather than a separate function. “Everything is interconnected,” he added, noting that ESG considerations touch on every aspect of a company’s operations, from stakeholder engagement to risk management .

 

The Communication Challenge: Avoiding Greenwashing

One of the central themes of the conversation was the challenge of greenwashing—when companies make exaggerated or misleading claims about their environmental or social efforts. Both Julia and Michael stressed the importance of transparency and authenticity in ESG communications. “It’s not just about what you’re doing, but how you’re communicating it,” Michael said . He pointed out that in today’s hyper-connected world, where stakeholders demand more accountability than ever, businesses can no longer afford to be vague or misleading about their sustainability efforts.

Julia echoed this sentiment, noting that effective communication is about striking the right balance between ambition and realism. “We really want to be a partner with these organisations and make sure that we are clear that we’re not going to support any level of greenwashing,” she explained . To avoid greenwashing, she advocates for honest, data-driven communication that reflects both the successes and challenges of sustainability initiatives.

“Progress, not perfection, should be the goal,”

she said, highlighting that companies need to focus on incremental, measurable improvements rather than making sweeping, unattainable claims .

 

Building Trust Through Transparency

Transparency emerged as a key theme in the conversation, with both Julia and Michael agreeing that it is essential for building trust with stakeholders. Julia recounted a project she worked on with a global trucking company, where regulatory challenges initially prevented the deployment of electric vehicles in Australia. Through strategic advocacy and clear communication, the company was able to influence policy changes across multiple states, allowing the trucks to finally hit the road. “It was about aligning the company’s sustainability goals with its broader business objectives,” Julia explained . This case study highlights how transparency and consistent communication can lead to tangible results, both in terms of regulatory change and stakeholder engagement.

Michael added that transparency is especially important in today’s media landscape, where misinformation can quickly spread. “The whole concept of honesty and transparency has been tested because you can’t get away with anything anymore,” he said . For businesses, this means that ESG communications need to be backed up by solid data and evidence, ensuring that claims are verifiable and trustworthy.

“If you have to explain your message, it’s not right,”

Michael emphasised .

 

Prioritising Material ESG Issues

One of the key takeaways from the discussion was the importance of prioritising material ESG issues—those that are most relevant to a company’s industry, stakeholders, and long-term success. Julia and Michael cautioned against trying to address every ESG issue under the sun, as this can dilute a company’s impact and make it harder to communicate clear, focused messages. “Pick the areas where you can make a real difference, both for your business and for society,” Julia advised .

For example, when working with a large FMCG company, Julia helped the brand identify specific sustainability goals that aligned with its broader business strategy. By focusing on areas where the company could have the most significant impact, such as circularity and sustainable packaging, they were able to create campaigns that resonated with both consumers and regulators. “You need to understand what good looks like without drinking the Kool-Aid,” she said, underscoring the need for realistic, achievable targets .

 

Communication as the Catalyst for Change

Ultimately, both Julia and Michael see communication as the key to driving meaningful change in the ESG space. Whether it’s engaging with regulators, building partnerships, or communicating with consumers, they believe that clear, consistent messaging is the foundation for success.

“Effective communication is what oils the machine and keeps it moving forward,”

Julia said .

Michael agreed, adding that in a world where companies are increasingly scrutinised for their ESG efforts, those that communicate their values authentically and transparently will be the ones that stand out. “The principles of good communication are the same wherever you go,” he noted, emphasising the importance of simplicity and clarity in messaging .

As businesses continue to navigate the complexities of ESG integration, the insights shared by Julia and Michael serve as a valuable reminder: communication is not just a tool for sharing information—it is the driving force that aligns corporate strategy with sustainability goals, builds trust with stakeholders, and ultimately, powers meaningful, long-term change.

In a world where sustainable investing has become increasingly prominent, the reality of impact investing often falls short of expectations. Many companies claim to have made significant strides toward environmental and social responsibility, but in truth, much of this can be attributed to a phenomenon known as “greenwashing.” Greenwashing occurs when companies exaggerate or falsely represent their sustainability efforts, leaving investors questioning the true impact of their portfolios. In a recent episode, Roman Cassini, Head of ESG at Hosking Partners, shared his invaluable insights on how to navigate these challenges and approach investing with a more long-term mindset.

Roman Cassini’s background is anything but conventional. Having started his career as an officer in the British Army, he then transitioned to a strategic role in the UK Ministry of Defence before moving into finance, where he now leads the ESG efforts at Hosking Partners. His unconventional path offers a unique perspective on the intricacies of impact investing, especially in relation to tackling greenwashing and promoting active ownership.

 

The Rise of Greenwashing in Sustainable Investing

Greenwashing has become a significant concern as more investors are seeking to make a positive difference through their investments. Companies eager to capitalise on this growing demand often overstate their sustainability credentials to attract environmentally conscious investors. However, as Roman highlighted during the conversation, this trend undermines the real goals of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) investing.

“Greenwashing is a major issue. Investors want to make an impact, but the real challenge is in accurately measuring that impact. Many companies make bold claims, but they often fall short of delivering meaningful results,”

Roman noted.

The crux of the problem, as Roman explained, lies in the difficulty of quantifying the real-world impact of investments. While financial professionals are adept at building models to measure profitability, calculating the long-term environmental or social impact of a company’s activities is far more complex. ESG issues, such as climate change, deforestation, and human rights violations, are not easily translated into figures or metrics that can fit neatly into financial models.

“There’s a fundamental issue with measurement in the sector,” Roman stated. “Investors want to quantify the impact, but the reality is far more complicated. We often deal with long-term goals, like net-zero targets, that don’t have immediate, measurable outcomes. Yet, the pressure to show progress leads to companies overstating their sustainability credentials.”

 

The Long-Term Approach to ESG Investing

Roman strongly advocates for a long-term approach to ESG investing, one that prioritises meaningful impact over short-term gains. At Hosking Partners, where the focus is on holding stocks for an average of five to ten years, this long-term thinking is embedded into their investment strategy. Unlike many investment firms that prioritise quick returns, Hosking Partners takes a broader, more patient view of the market, seeking to invest in companies that align with sustainable practices over the long haul.

“We need to look beyond the immediate gains and think about the broader picture. Climate change and energy transitions are long-term challenges, and our investment strategies need to reflect that,” Roman said.

This perspective is crucial when dealing with issues such as climate change, which require sustained efforts over decades. While some investors may shy away from long-term strategies due to uncertainty and volatility in the market, Roman emphasised the importance of sticking to a principled approach.

“Short-termism often drives poor decisions. When investors focus only on quarterly earnings or short-term stock price movements, they risk ignoring the bigger picture. In contrast, a long-term perspective allows us to see through the noise and identify the companies that will succeed in the future,”

he explained.

 

Active Ownership: A Tool for Positive Change

One of the most effective ways for investors to ensure that their money is driving real-world impact is through active ownership. This involves engaging with the companies they invest in, not just to earn returns but to influence their behaviour and ensure they are adhering to ethical and sustainable practices. As Roman pointed out, investors have a critical role to play in shaping the future of corporate responsibility.

“As shareholders, we have the ability to influence corporate behaviour. We can engage with management, push for greater transparency, and hold companies accountable for their ESG commitments,”

Roman said.

Hosking Partners takes this approach seriously, actively engaging with the companies in their portfolio to drive positive change. Whether it’s advocating for stronger environmental policies or ensuring companies are managing their supply chains responsibly, Roman believes that active ownership is a key part of responsible investing.

“There’s a responsibility that comes with being an investor. It’s not just about making money; it’s about ensuring that the companies we invest in are future-proof, both economically and environmentally,” he added.

 

The Challenge of Measuring Impact

A recurring theme throughout the podcast was the difficulty in measuring the true impact of ESG investments. While some aspects, such as a company’s carbon emissions, are relatively straightforward to quantify, others are far more ambiguous. Roman gave the example of scope 3 emissions, which include indirect emissions from a company’s supply chain and the end-use of its products.

“It’s relatively easy to measure a company’s direct emissions, but when you get into scope 3 emissions, it becomes much more complicated. Should a car manufacturer, for example, be held responsible for the emissions from drivers using its cars? Or should that be the responsibility of the petrol companies?” Roman asked.

This ambiguity makes it difficult for investors to assess the real impact of their investments. Roman pointed out that while the financial industry has made significant progress in measuring ESG factors, there is still much work to be done to develop more accurate and reliable metrics.

“We’ve poured huge amounts of money and time into trying to solve this quantification problem, but in my view, it hasn’t really been solved. There’s still a long way to go in terms of measuring the impact that investments have on the environment and society,” Roman explained.

 

The Importance of Not “Deselecting” Yourself

Throughout the conversation, Roman shared his personal experiences and the lessons he’s learned throughout his career. One of the key messages he emphasised was the importance of not “deselecting” yourself from opportunities, particularly in industries like finance, where non-traditional backgrounds are often underrepresented.

“I think one of the most important lessons I’ve learned is to never deselect yourself from something. It’s easy to feel like you don’t fit the mould, especially in industries like finance, but I’ve found that my diverse background has actually been an asset,”

Roman said.

He encouraged listeners to embrace their unique experiences and not to be discouraged by imposter syndrome. Whether transitioning into a new field or pursuing a leadership role, Roman’s advice is to remain confident and not shy away from opportunities.

“Everyone suffers from imposter syndrome to some degree. The key is not to let it guide your decisions. There’s absolutely a role for generalists in finance and other industries. It’s about recognising the value of your diverse experiences and not taking yourself out of the game before you’ve even had a chance to play,” he concluded.

A Call for Transparency and Long-Term Thinking

Roman Cassini’s insights into impact investing and greenwashing serve as a powerful reminder of the importance of transparency, active ownership, and long-term thinking in today’s investment landscape. While the challenges of measuring real impact remain, investors can make a difference by engaging with the companies they invest in, holding them accountable, and pushing for meaningful change.

As the world faces unprecedented challenges like climate change and the energy transition, the role of ESG investing has never been more critical. By adopting a long-term perspective and refusing to be swayed by short-term gains, investors can ensure that their money is not just generating returns, but also making a positive impact on the world.

In the words of Roman, “We need to be honest about the impact we can have and ensure that we’re not overstating what’s being achieved. Real change takes time, and we have to be prepared to play the long game.”