Her answer is deceptively simple: follow the money.

“If we can quantify the financial impact of aspects of sustainability, it will get the attention of the people that make the decisions,” Rebecca explains. “It pains me to say it, but money makes the world go round. So why don’t we try and make it work for us?”

This pragmatic, almost clinical recognition—that the path to impact runs through balance sheets—sets Rebecca apart from many in her field. For her, leadership isn’t about inspiring slogans or glossy ESG reports; it’s about building a language that boards and CFOs can’t ignore.

From Science to Strategy

Rebecca’s path into sustainability was neither linear nor preordained. A geophysics degree at Durham gave her the tools to interrogate the natural world—from the mechanics of California wildfires to the physics of the Earth’s core. But it was the undeniability of climate science, laid bare by her lecturers, that sharpened her resolve.

“These lecturers were able to describe it and put out the evidence in such a way that it felt so undeniable that I just couldn’t ignore it basically.”

Yet her first job, in a manufacturing firm, revealed a different frontier: gender inequality. Just 25% of the workforce were women. Rebecca threw herself into a gender balance working group, pushing back against everyday microaggressions and building awareness. Responsibility, she realised, is as much about culture as carbon.

The Double Materiality Moment

Today, Rebecca works at the cutting edge of “double materiality”—the idea that sustainability is no longer just about a company’s impact on the planet, but also the planet’s impact on the company. The EU’s CSRD regulations have made this dual lens unavoidable.

For Rebecca, this shift represents both a professional opportunity and a philosophical pivot: finally, the environmental crises of our age are being translated into the one language corporations fully understand—risk and return.

But she warns against complacency. Reports, she notes, can often feel like sterile artefacts of what’s already happened. The challenge is to make them drivers of change—spotlights that illuminate failure and possibility in equal measure.

Women in STEM, and the Power of Storytelling

Rebecca is also passionate about who gets to shape these narratives. Having studied in male-dominated science departments, she has seen how representation—or its absence—matters.

She lights up when discussing a recent article celebrating women scientists whose contributions have been forgotten, their names erased from the textbooks.

“If we want to get more women and young girls interested in science and then studying it, potentially then having a career in it, they need to see the role models and feel inspired by them.”

Here, communication is as critical as science. The stories that stick—the ones that change who sees themselves as a “scientist”—are often told not through reports, but through film, books, even TikTok reels. Sustainability, in other words, is as much cultural as it is technical.

Leadership at the Edge

What does it take to lead responsibly in this environment? For Rebecca, it is the ability to hold two ideas in tension: optimism and realism.

“Some of the clients I work with make me feel better about it. Some of them don’t… but I think you have to remain optimistic in this job, or what’s the point?”

That pragmatism is a lesson for leaders everywhere. Hope without realism is naivety; realism without hope is paralysis. The responsible edge lies in the uncomfortable space between.

As Group Director of Marketing and Sustainability at Stahl, a global leader in coatings for flexible materials, Laura isn’t trying to save the planet with slogans. She’s trying to shift one of the most complex industrial ecosystems on earth — from the inside, and with both feet on the ground.

“Unless the customer can open up a new market or sell and expand their business, there’s no way,” she explains.

“It has to match the financial models we’re used to. And that is growth. That is margin.”

In a sector where performance isn’t optional and price is still king, Laura is proving that embedding ESG doesn’t have to mean abandoning commercial sense. In fact, it may require doubling down on it.

From Forest Hikes to Factory Floors

Laura’s leadership isn’t rooted in management theory. It’s shaped by childhood hikes in the Dutch forests, dinosaur-themed booklets sold for WWF donations, and a pragmatic curiosity about how the world works. That early pull — to both storytelling and environmental protection — never really left her.

It’s what later drew her into marketing roles in the chemical industry, an unusual path for someone with a deep connection to nature. But it wasn’t a contradiction. “You need chemistry to make everything — the car, the phone, the infrastructure. The question isn’t whether the industry is flawed. It’s how we use its strengths for the transition we need.”

This isn’t naivety. It’s realism, sharpened by years of procurement and commercial experience. And it’s exactly this worldview — simultaneously systems-aware and market-savvy — that defines her approach at Stahl.

Can Brand and ESG Coexist?

Sustainability often gets siloed, shoved into compliance or PR. At Stahl, Laura’s dual role as head of both marketing and sustainability raises eyebrows. But she sees it differently.

“The brand is an expression of our strategy. And ESG is central to that strategy,” she says.

“It means I can avoid greenwashing — because I understand the business, the factory, the customer.”

This is ESG as substance, not surface. Under Laura’s watch, the sustainability message isn’t painted on — it’s pressure-tested against margin, materials, and market dynamics.

Transparency Is Not a Tool. It’s a Culture.

Responding to a Financial Times article on AI and supply chains, Laura is clear: data alone won’t save us.

“We have a data overload. Tooling isn’t enough. We need value chain collaboration and we need to educate the consumer.”

The bottleneck isn’t technical — it’s human. It’s our inability to align incentives, share data meaningfully, and build trust between players who, until recently, competed on opacity.

The most compelling example? The fashion industry’s Zero Discharge initiative — a rare show of consensus that allowed sustainability standards to become visible and functional. Laura wants more of that: one outcome, one standard, one clear signal to the consumer.

Is It Really Possible to Lead Responsibly?

It depends what we mean by “responsibly”. If we mean sacrificing growth for virtue, then no — at least not yet. But if responsibility means balancing commercial outcomes with environmental and social integrity, and doing so transparently, then yes.

“You need belief,” Laura says.

“And a few brave companies to step back and ask: where do I want to be in ten years’ time?”

It’s a leadership model that doesn’t demand sainthood — just a strategic patience, a willingness to collaborate, and a refusal to let perfection kill progress.

In a world shouting for silver bullets, Laura Willemsen is offering something rarer: a blueprint for change that’s incremental, integrated, and real.

There’s an uncomfortable truth lurking in the conversation around ethics, governance, and corporate responsibility: most leaders only think about accountability when they’re forced to. By then, it’s usually too late.

For Andy Norris, that’s the crux of the issue. Accountability, he argues, doesn’t start with frameworks, board charters, or glossy ESG reports. It starts with people. And more often than not, it starts with childhood.

“The lessons we absorb about fairness, right and wrong, and responsibility — they shape every decision we make, whether we’re conscious of it or not,” says Andy.

It’s an insight born not from textbooks, but from a career that’s spanned the operational trenches to the boardroom. Andy has worked with multinationals, advised on governance across sectors, and seen firsthand how flimsy accountability mechanisms can be if the foundations aren’t there.

🚧 The Flaw in Modern Governance

In today’s corporate landscape, governance often feels like a checklist. Diversity targets? Ticked. ESG policy? Published. Whistleblower hotline? Installed.

But as Andy points out, “You can have all the policies in place, but if people don’t truly feel responsible for their actions — if accountability isn’t part of the culture — those mechanisms collapse under pressure.”

It’s not about removing structures, but understanding their limits. Real change starts earlier, deeper.

🛠 Building a Culture of Pre-Boardroom Accountability

So how do organisations embed this ethos? Andy suggests three starting points:

✅ Values before policies: Hire for integrity, not just technical skills.
✅ Reward the uncomfortable: Celebrate those who raise concerns, even when it’s awkward.
✅ Model it at every level: Leaders set the tone — not with slogans, but with actions.

It sounds simple. It isn’t. It requires what Andy calls “the courage to care,” a willingness to have the difficult conversations long before crisis hits.

⚡ The Business Case for Ethical Foundations

Beyond the moral imperative, Andy is clear: ethical leadership isn’t just about ‘doing the right thing’ — it’s commercial common sense. Organisations built on genuine accountability attract better talent, weather reputational storms, and create long-term value.

“The companies that succeed,” Andy explains, “are the ones where responsibility isn’t an add-on — it’s part of the DNA.”

FINAL THOUGHT

In a world obsessed with quick fixes and external validation, Andy Norris offers a refreshing — and necessary — reminder. Responsibility doesn’t start in the boardroom. It starts long before.

The real challenge? Having the humility, at every level, to accept that.

Her new venture—S4: the Secret Society of Sustainability Spies—isn’t a stunt. It’s a philosophy: train people at all levels to embed sustainability into their everyday decisions, no job title required.

“If companies won’t go to sustainability, sustainability must go to the company—whether they want it or not.” — Magali

🕵️‍♀️ Changing the System Quietly

As Holcim’s first Chief Sustainability and Innovation Officer, Magali helped shape the cement industry’s first net-zero commitment and aligned executive pay to ESG metrics. But the CSO role, she says, is being hollowed out—stuck in reporting loops, isolated from the business’s core.

That’s why she’s turning toward “systemic subversion.” The new goal? Empower procurement officers, engineers, and marketers to push change from within—what she calls changing your job without telling anyone.

“Sustainability isn’t a job title. It’s a way of working.”

🧠 Why the CSO Role Isn’t Working

Magali is blunt about the burnout plaguing sustainability leaders. When asked why, she doesn’t hesitate:

“Too many CSOs are doing reporting instead of reshaping business models. That’s like asking a CEO to focus only on financial disclosures.”

Her solution: embed ESG where the power is—finance, operations, product. The job of a CSO should be to make themselves obsolete.

“The goal is for the CSO role to disappear because everyone is doing the job.”

🧱 Building Holcim’s ESG Edge

During her time at Holcim, Magali led some of the boldest moves in the building materials sector:

• The first net-zero pledge validated by SBTi

• Integration of nature targets into business strategy

• Launch of the Roof Over Our Heads campaign to house 1 billion people

But for all the public wins, her focus was always internal: realigning incentives, simplifying systems, and rooting sustainability in business logic.

“We treated sustainability like a business transformation—not a comms campaign.”

🔮 From Oil Rigs to Boardrooms

Magali’s career began in oil and gas. She doesn’t hide it; she embraces it.

“I don’t feel guilty. Guilt locks the past. I use it to unlock the future.”

That honesty fuels her mission now: to help professionals everywhere reframe their roles, histories, and power to act.

✨ If She Had a Magic Wand…

No jargon. No tech. Just this:
Tie executive bonuses to long-term ESG metrics.

“You can’t ask factory workers to care about sustainability if their bosses aren’t paid to care.”

Will isn’t just another voice in the ESG crowd. He’s been on the inside, designing sustainability strategy, engaging boards, and wrestling with the brutal complexity of telecom supply chains. And he’s refreshingly honest about what does and doesn’t work.

“The target’s just the start. It’s the action behind it that matters.”

In conversation, Will makes a compelling case: true progress demands that we escape our own organisational silos and rethink where value actually comes from—often in places overlooked by traditional ESG frameworks.

💡 Forget the Net Zero Checklists—Think Industry-Wide Standards

During his time at TalkTalk, Will led efforts that cut emissions by 58% in just four years. But he’s quick to point out that individual corporate action isn’t enough.

“We had to look beyond the four walls of the company. That meant getting competitors, regulators, and suppliers around the table.”

That effort led to one of the most ambitious initiatives in UK telecoms: a cross-sector collaboration representing £50 billion in annual revenue. The goal? Create minimum joint standards to address Scope 3 emissions—a problem that no single firm can solve in isolation.

Key Outcomes:

• 85% of suppliers (by spend) now have science-based targets

• A roadmap for reducing upstream emissions shared across the industry

• Ongoing work with Ofcom to align regulatory frameworks with sustainability priorities

This isn’t ESG as branding. It’s ESG as systems change.

🧠 Why ESG Reporting Misses the Point (and What to Do Instead)

Will’s critique of standard ESG reporting is incisive. He doesn’t reject it outright—but he’s sceptical of the weight it carries in decision-making.

“Reporting on ESG metrics is often about satisfying frameworks. But that doesn’t necessarily lead to change.”

So what does?

• Board-level engagement that links sustainability to commercial risk

• Simplicity and clarity over 80-page reports

• A shift from defensive disclosures to forward-looking strategy

His approach also included mandatory ESG training for TalkTalk employees and Carbon Literacy Training—a first in the sector.

🌐 What’s Next: A Commercial Lens on Sustainability

After nearly 12 years at TalkTalk, Will is shifting his focus to consultancy, bringing a commercial mindset to ESG challenges in other industries. He sees massive untapped potential for mid-sized firms—too often overlooked in policy discussions.

“The companies that are going to move the dial are those that see sustainability not as a cost, but as a catalyst.”

And as he explains, today’s sustainability professionals aren’t simply under-resourced. They’re tasked with being polymaths—strategists, diplomats, auditors, and ethicists—all under growing scrutiny and with shrinking support.

“Sustainability is like a Swiss Army knife. It does a little bit of everything,” Jack says. “But unfortunately, it always seems to be the department that gets its legs chopped off first.”

🛠️ The Rise—and Frustration—of the Corporate Generalist

Jack’s journey began not in a boardroom, but in the wilds of the UK’s Peak District, where childhood experiences in nature formed the roots of his professional ethos. After studying zoology and later earning a master’s in environmental technology at Imperial College London, he entered the workforce at a time when sustainability wasn’t yet codified—it was a curiosity, a cost, or a PR side note.

Now, two decades on, Jack is deeply embedded in the inner workings of ESG governance. But the job has changed. Dramatically.

Sustainability teams are, he argues, often the first to face cuts. And even when intact, their scope is impossibly broad:

• Ensure compliance with a shifting regulatory landscape.

• Build internal cross-departmental governance systems.

• Communicate externally with credibility and legal precision.

• Shape long-term strategy while responding to daily crises.

All with skeleton staff, tight budgets, and intensifying political pressure.

“We’re expected to be crystal ball mind readers, functional experts, accountants, legal gurus—literally everything under the sun.”

⚖️ Green Hushing, Political Polarisation & the Ethics of Silence

One of the most revealing parts of Jack’s conversation centres on communication—or the growing reluctance to do so. Reflecting on a 2023 Axios article about the trend towards subtler ESG messaging, Jack doesn’t dispute the phenomenon, but he adds a more human angle.

Green hushing, he argues, can be soul-destroying. Not just because it silences companies, but because it silences the people within them trying to do the right thing.

“Not being able to say something can be heartbreaking. There aren’t many regular places for people in sustainability to get their stories across.”

This isn’t about silencing fluff—it’s about losing the stories and case studies that drive peer-to-peer innovation and cross-sector learning. And while Jack believes internal collaboration will endure, he warns that without external communication, public understanding will continue to fragment.

“We need to encourage better decision-making by consumers. We can only do that if we talk and engage and communicate.”

🧭 The Say-Do Gap & Brand Activism

Jack’s insights into brand alignment are refreshingly nuanced. While there’s clear fatigue with companies hopping on every social cause, Jack resists the idea that corporates are purely cynical or performative.

He identifies a more structural problem: companies are increasingly reactive—nudged by NGOs, employees, trade groups, even rivals—into engagement. That’s not inherently bad. But it raises big questions:

• Are we aligning with this issue because we believe in it, or because we fear being left behind?

• Do we have the systems, strategy, and budget in place to act on it?

• Will this be a sustained commitment or a one-month campaign?

“There needs to be a little more pragmatism and seriousness about what the company is going to be able to do before it says what it’s going to do.”

Jack isn’t calling for less ambition—he’s calling for more integrity.

🎯 The Magic Wand? Give Sustainability the Tools It Needs

Asked what he’d do with a magic wand, Jack doesn’t hesitate. He wouldn’t conjure up more pledges or frameworks. He’d give sustainability professionals what most already have to beg for: adequate resources.

“I’d wish my colleagues had the tools, the budgets, the buy-in. We can’t keep expecting strategic transformation from underfunded teams.”

It’s not just a plea for fairness—it’s a warning. Without structural investment, the very people tasked with delivering long-term value will burn out before they ever reach the summit.